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Reader Comments (36)

Posted: Jul 21st 2010 3:18PM (Unverified) said

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What completely worthless commentary. There is nothing substantial said here and absolutely nothing informative. If you feel like rambling on about something I suggest you do it in a way that is actually engaging. I do not mind commentary when someone actually has something meaningful to say but this does nothing for the readers that come to this site to be informed about video games.

Posted: Jul 21st 2010 3:23PM (Unverified) said

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What completely worthless reader comment. There is nothing substantial said here and absolutely nothing informative. If you feel like rambling on about something I suggest you do it in a way that is actually engaging. I do not mind reader comments when someone actually has something meaningful to say but this does nothing for the readers that come to this site to be informed about video games.
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Posted: Jul 21st 2010 3:25PM Pingles said

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Errr... I thought he made his point very clear with several examples.

And while I am no fan of racial stereotyping I don't think the term "Chinese Gold Farmer" is inaccurate enough to remove from the field of play.
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Posted: Jul 21st 2010 9:56PM (Unverified) said

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I agree with Fly Magnet, this article is one long ramble about why he loves free-2-play games.

There is a distinction between f2p and a subscription based game, one requires a payment before play the other does not. If you want to call them all MMOs and feel nice and warm on the inside then by all means do. It will not change the fact that they have decidedly different business models.

Yes, Asian MMOs are more grindy and yes Darkfall is a hardcore PvP MMO. The fact that Darkfall has PvE content does not make it less so.
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Posted: Jul 21st 2010 3:50PM (Unverified) said

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Your waving your finger and saying "Tsk tsk" to forum trolls and 4chan alumni.

I am confused however, what actually are you trying to say in this article? Pointing out the inherint racism that "Gold farming" tends to imply or a broader scope of inaccurate labels in general with a focus on gaming?

Posted: Jul 21st 2010 3:31PM Verus said

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Excellent article! Yes free-to-play mmo┬┤s are often given a bad name despite the fact that theere are several great ones.

I think it is one of the things you touched upon the shear amount of them. It is sometimes mind boggling how many mmo there are these days. Most days I check on massively you write about some mmo that I have never even heard of ;)

And simply by that massive amount there are a lot of bad free-to-play games and of course far more duds than with the subscription based ones.

Still things like DDO and World of Tanks beta now gives me plenty of fun for no extra cost and hopefully soon LOTRO also.

Got one question on LOTRO does anyone know if it will go "free" in europe also or is it only in NA ? Nothing on lotro eu site about it only on the NA site.

Posted: Jul 21st 2010 3:45PM esarphie said

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Since they're just in the process of rolling out free-to-play for DDO Europe, I suspect any move in that direction on LoTRO will take a similar amount of time.
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Posted: Jul 21st 2010 4:21PM (Unverified) said

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DDO is no longer run by Codemasters. Turbine recently had enough and took the license back. Hell, it was announced here and on mmorpg.com as well as other sites. And yes, it has already been announced that EU DDO is now going F2P with the same model as NA DDO.
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Posted: Jul 21st 2010 3:32PM (Unverified) said

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Uhm, excuse me sir. I am tired of assumptions being made on all fronts and your back ass mumbo jumbo offends me to the core.


I for one still very much enjoy being naked in the trees on a regular basis. I expect an apology.

Thank you.

Posted: Jul 21st 2010 3:41PM (Unverified) said

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Haha, I'll take it into consideration but I can't promise anything =P

Posted: Jul 21st 2010 3:42PM Verus said

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Not played for a while but I believe it was Codemasters who are behind the LOTRO eu servers ?

Posted: Jul 21st 2010 3:49PM (Unverified) said

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Yeah, I've never responded here, but I have to admit, this article was pretty worthless. I come here for news on videogames, not pretentious pseudo-philosophizing on regional differences. If you want to talk about the differences, then please do so, because certainly there are many, but also be sure to do it in a objective and quantifiable manner, much as the recent articles about customer service and community. Because frankly, you're opinion isn't worth any more than anyone else's - that doesn't mean I don't want to hear it, but the overabundance of blatantly rhetorical questions (which I humorously didn't always know the answer to - not the response one wants when using questions for that purpose) and quotations of what you believe (from what authority, I wonder) to be inaccurate terms, without yourself offering any manner of evidence, results in an effusively arrogant and relatively content-less piece that reeks of unwarranted self importance. I'm going to have to agree with Fly Magnet: rant on your own time to your own friends, and try to maintain the integrity of this site.

and tempes, please please, try to take a reading class and learn to not make inferences which aren't at all implied by the author. No where did Fly give his opinion of F2P games, nor even on the opinion of the article, simply on its current form and questionable location as an article on this site. Your comments are needlessly agressive, and demonstrate a lack of comprehension, as you seemingly take commonly used phrases like "stereotyping others" and "[un?]believably blind comment" when infact nothing said by the poster implied any amount of bias. I usually read comments to see how the reader feel about something, and this is not the level of conversation I think others and Iwant to see.

Posted: Jul 21st 2010 3:48PM jimr9999us said

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Varying business models within mmorpg's exist as sub-genres. I prefer the subscription genre because the gate a sub creates helps ensure the players are invested in the lore/community, and also because it removes the real life economy from the game.

There is anxiety over mmog business models currently because LotRO decided to change from sub to f2p...it is akin to going from a fantasy game world to science fiction. Certain key aspects of a game should be trusted to remain constant on release.

As for this opinion piece...I respect Massively for the quality of the writing here and the respect for the games I love. However, this site has become a tool of propaganda for the industry. There seems to be a complete lack of criticism here anymore...This article is a great example, stating in sum: "My opinion is that it is incorrect to have an opinion on various mmog payment methods."

Wow. Well written, for sure...but could we try to put some meat on those bones?

Posted: Jul 21st 2010 3:55PM Kinau said

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Reading this article made me go Zzzzz

Posted: Jul 21st 2010 4:12PM (Unverified) said

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I have to agree with the first and last commenters. There isn't very much said here in this rambling article. I believe the TL;DR version is "you can't trust a quick summary to tell you everything about a game," but that strikes me as pretty obvious and not worth being so oblique about...

I will now enter English teacher mode:

Cite examples that highlight your point and actually talk in depth about them and why they are relevant. For example: even though it's obvious not all "Chinese" gold farmers are from China, tell us why you even brought it up. Are they predominantly Vietnamese, or perhapse Eastern European? Do they operate as a part of the Italian Mafia? Is there any reason you brought them up aside from the obvious one of a race card to generate comments?

Dig into this idea and put some meat into your article, and it could be awsome.

Posted: Jul 21st 2010 4:25PM Damn Dirty Ape said

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It is really just missing a clear introductory paragraph that explains the topic. That second sentence was a little boggling.
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Posted: Jul 21st 2010 4:22PM (Unverified) said

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This doesn't change the fact that most Chinese/Korean games suck.

Posted: Jul 21st 2010 4:32PM Berzerk said

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The only sentence you wrote that makes sense is the first one, but that's not the point. The article is filled with illogical statements (false tautologies and false dichotomies). There's no opinion to argue for or against. It's just a bunch of loose observations and a general emotion of uneasiness over the whole thing.

The flame war aspect comes in from the feeling I get that the author is implying that gamers are racists and sexists who feel compelled to insult free-to-play games from other countries without trying them.

Posted: Jul 21st 2010 4:40PM wcdregon said

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I disagree with the mass opinion that the article is worthless. Its not about the pseudo philosophy or the racial distinction. The point of this whole rant, which I agree in the end is not conveyed clearly is that the landscape of MMO's is slowly changing and with the majority of MMO's being F2P and even some of the more well known MMO's going the F2P route the distinction between classes of MMO need to be differentiated more clearly. There is obviously a huge pile of junk mmo's coming from asia and filled with chinese gold farmers. More and more there are also extremely high quality and imaginative games coming from this region of the world. We ought to begin the process of classifying our MMOs based on quality rather than price model. for console games we have AAA+ titles and then the rest of the shit that you don't see advertised. Not all AAA titles are great games, but the vast majority are more quality than the rest of the fodder. Don't flame me I know there are some truly exceptional exceptions to this such as Shadow of the Colossus. Overall I think that Beau gramatically wrote the article well, but the overall point of classifying F2P MMO's as junk simply because of the price model is something we as gamers need to move away from. I personally have been an avid mmo gamer since 2004 and only within the last few months have I begun to realize that not all F2P MMO's are garbage. Try Global Agenda, its not perfect but if your favorite thing about wow is Warsong Gulch and the other pvp games like it, then you'll love GA and the best part is there are no chinese gold farmers, lol. the AH only sells crafting components, recipes and repair kits. nothing for gold sellers to exploit.

Posted: Jul 21st 2010 4:42PM (Unverified) said

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seriously? He thought it was a bad article. He implied nothing about f2p games at all. And your comments to me further underscore your inability to comprehend what is being written. I never implied this didn't have anything to do with games; simply that it had no place on this site as it lacked the credibility of a well-thought out work. If you read, you would see I said I am not against reading his opinion on this matter, but the way it was presented was of puerile purpose and construction at best and not worthy of the authority that comes with posting an article on a popular site. I never said I wanted tangible information (not to mention that very phrase is nonsensical) nor would I expect any of the things you mentioned from Massively, as they have never been here. But obviously, I've just realized I've been trying to explain something to either an 8 year old or an intellectually stunted adult, and none of this I going to get through to you, so I'm just going to stop.

Furthermore, massively, the vote down feature needs to bee remove; it's laugable how any negative comment becomes grayed out simply because personalities like Tempes disagree with them. If something is offensive, it should be up to the moderators to delete them. Otherwise, reasonable opinions deserve to be heard in the comment section

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