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Posted: Jul 14th 2010 3:33PM (Unverified) said

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You know, I can't speak for everyone else, cuz there are some TOTALLY stupid people out there. I do have to say that so far, the only women called **BLEEPED BY EDITOR** for standing up for themselves I know were called so because they had to be **BLEEP** while they did it.
Idk, def not saying that you were, because I wasn't there and I don't know you and I don't think you would have been offended and posted this if you didn't know that you had been respectful.
I just thought it was interesting to point out that SOME (not most, not all, not a lot) women say that and then use it as an excuse to be a complete **BLEEP**. Then,when you call them on it they harping "If a woman speaks up, she's a **BLEEP**. If a man does it he's a hero." Nope...he's a **BLEEP**. We have words for men who do those things, too.
I've always had a soft spot for people crying discrimination when it doesn't exist, just because I know what it feels like and I know people that have felt it even worse so. I guess it's a good thing, in, in a way, though. That there are people out there that don't know what real discrimination is. I mean ,bad that they cry wolf, but good that it has lessened enough for that to happen.
Anyway, so that I'm clear that the people that called you a **BLEEPERINO**...I shall repeat, that sucks. You definitely seem to have faced a lot in your time and I hate when I hear people have had to go through that.
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Posted: Jul 14th 2010 2:00PM WeirdJedi said

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I think the biggest thing that annoys me is the sense of elitism. There are several cases where people brag about their shiny toys, which is fine, but then to only invite people with those same shiny toys is just annoying.

I recall a time where a guy wouldn't take me because I didn't have this one specific item, which would have increased about +3 weapon damage. The reason why I couldn't get it, is because the 'roll of the dice' was against me. They took offense when I said I could be just as effective as anyone else with that item. I was essentially banished from any group without that one item.

The belief that you can be just as effective with less was sort of taboo with the community. I guess that is why I usually quit games at "endgame".

Posted: Jul 14th 2010 2:51PM Saker said

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Part of the reason I've always hated this whole "end-game" thing. MMO's aren't supposed to have an "end" that's why one of the first was called "Ever-Quest", there isn't supposed to be and end to the questing. I've always believed this is one of the basic flaws in level based games, and it goes to why they end up getting so deformed over time, expansion after expansion needing to raise the power, raise the stakes, raise the stats. I likewise end up leaving games before the holy-endgame that seems so often to be the whole goal of the thing to get to X endgame whatever level, location, boss-mob.
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Posted: Jul 14th 2010 2:24PM Solaris said

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**BLEEPED BY EDITOR FOR TROLLING, PROFANITY, AND JUST PLAIN DISGUSTINGNESS, AND YES THAT'S A TECHNICAL TERM -BREE**

Posted: Jul 14th 2010 2:56PM (Unverified) said

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@Solaris:

Let's say someone mentions, I don't know, say, Belgium in passing. You have something to say about Belgium, so you say "Oh yeah, a few years ago my girlfriend and I took a vacation to Belgium and we..."

Boom! You just told everyone you're straight (assuming you're male)! Why should anyone ever need to tell anyone their sexual preference? Well you know, because stuff like that always comes up in casual conversation.

"Hey, what did you do last weekend?"

"Oh, me and girlfriend did x"

"Have you seen x movie?"

"Oh yeah, my girlfriend and I watched it on Netflix the other night..."

Hell, lots of people think it's perfectly acceptable and not rude at all to ask people they've just met whether they're married or have a boyfriend/girlfriend.

It's completely unavoidable, unless you choose to never, ever talk about your personal life, or unless you choose to lie/omit huge parts of it. Most folks would rather not have to do that. I don't understand why people don't get that. Seems simple enough to me.
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Posted: Jul 14th 2010 3:12PM Dblade said

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What is it about EVE and russians by the way? Russians for some reason are hated in it.
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Posted: Jul 14th 2010 2:25PM (Unverified) said

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Gay here too.

I've been kicked out of a guilds for not being Southern Baptist.

I've had longtime guild mates stop returning tells after I have to go afk for the bf.

When I encounter people spewing homophobia by asking "Do you have a problem with who I **BLEEPED BY EDITOR**?" people react as if I'm the one instigating a fight for not appreciating slurs.


A few quick points:

There is no "other" definition of **BLEEPED**. You are not a member of the Society for Creative Anachronism.

There is no "failing to mention how gay you are". All I gotta do is use my real name and people will figure it out. Your online buddies will want to "friend" you and then they're neither.

Posted: Jul 14th 2010 3:32PM (Unverified) said

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You know what always irks me, but in a bitter-sweet way..is when people whisper me to tell me that they're not gay but they're okay with me being gay. I'm like...congratulations on not being a neanderthal. I really do appreciate the support, but I get a little miffed that they treat it like it's a special occasion. I know, it's not entirely the normal thing you see, but is it so wrong to just want to be treated that way? I would like to mention my bf without an onslaught of support /whispers. I really appreciate the effort, and I love them all a little more every time they do it, but I'm not trying to make some political stand by describing what move I went to see with him last week.
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Posted: Jul 14th 2010 5:51PM JustPlainJim said

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@Ivey
I know it may be weird to you, and maybe slightly offensive, but to some people, being "okay" with a gay person is like a (very) minor form of coming out of the closet. You've no doubt noticed there's a lot of a-holes in the world that will hate you for your sexual orientation. Even though these people that are okay with you are fine upstanding citizens in that regard, they've probably been raised in an environment where gay people are icky and yucky (yes, intentionally using 'icky' and 'yucky' because I find the hate to be rather childish). Putting myself in their shoes, if I'd been raised by someone(s) that had their biases and voiced them frequently through my early years, even if I didn't agree with that bias and found those people to be not nearly as yucky as my parent(s) proclaimed, I'd still feel odd about that feeling, and I probably wouldn't say it in front of my parent(s). Some people really are that crazy that they'd disown their "(insert race/homosexual/color/religion/etc)-loving" child.

Another possibility is that, like I said. There are a lot of a-holes and they want to be sure you know that they're not one of them, at least in that regard. Option #2 seems far more likely.

My two cents: Treat 'em with tolerance as you'd want them to treat you. If they say it once, give 'em a sincere "thank you" and move on. if they keep bringing it up, though, ya might want to confront them about it.

... Sorry. That was some advice when you didn't really ask for it. Just wanted to say "don't be too hard on 'em."
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Posted: Jul 14th 2010 2:55PM Saker said

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Good link, maybe it'll make a few people think (hey there's always hope?)!
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Posted: Jul 14th 2010 2:57PM (Unverified) said

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Yes I have seen that scene. I think it's helpful in a few ways, but in all seriousness, fictional characters written by the heterosexual comic & his writing team really don't have the standing or lifelong experience to uh, give permission.

To be a little more specific, the "by all means use it, get your laughs, but know what it means" approach isn't relevant when you're dealing with people who are bigots and mean harm.

Posted: Jul 14th 2010 11:04PM (Unverified) said

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**PARAGRAPH DELETED BY EDITOR FOR LANGUAGE, TROLLING -BREE**

The people who mistake language for homophobia are often the same people who don't actually know any *fill in the blank* people. Look at "African American." As a black person, I identify myself as being black. I HATE it when someone calls me African American. I am not any more African then they are European. We're American. Calling someone a homosexual can be almost as ignorant as calling someone a **BEEP**, just as calling someone an African American can be perceived by people to be just as ignorant as **BLEEP**. It all depends on the person behind the word.

Worse than any sort of name calling is actually marginalizing people in the interest of not being offensive. A Guild I had belonged to had asked a person to stop talking about their same sex partner because some of the straights might get offended. This is way more offensive to me, a straight man, because it goes beyond just some word and becomes signifier of the thought process behind the language. Apparently, some people find homosexuality offensive. That I don't tolerate. Imagine if someone had told me to stop talking about my white girlfriend for the same reason **BLEEPED BY EDITOR FOR RACIST REMARK (IRONY?) -BREE**

Point is, words are just that. Sometimes you can be racist or homophobic without racial or homophobic epithets just as using racist and homophobic epithets doesn't necessarily make you one. Especially on the internet, you have to take what people say and put it into the context of the anonymity provided by being faceless.

Posted: Jul 14th 2010 3:32PM (Unverified) said

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Agreed that some thing are worse, but that doesn't mean that the little things don't count as well. Just because some people use a word doesn't mean that it has lost any of the sting. Also...you don't get to narrow down the definition of a word on your own. It does not mean only flaming homosexuals, and even if it did, that is still discriminatory.
People don't walk around throwing the n-word and then go "Oh! sorry dude, that only refers to black people from Nigeria." It doesn't work that way. I honestly believe that you use it in a narrowed sense, but the people you use it on, and the people that hear you use it don't. It's just an excuse for you to use a disrespectful phrase against people you don't respect. I guess you have respect for straight-acting gay people, which is cool in itself, but that doesn't mean you can treat queeny ones less.
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Posted: Jul 14th 2010 3:05PM (Unverified) said

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"I don't like all this politically correctness. People should use words to properly describe their opinion and be judged by what they have to say. You want to call me a racist or homophobe just because I say **BLEEPED BY EDITOR -BREE** go ahead, you would be incorrect but this politically correct prerogative may fit in your world but it does not fly in mine."

So...how do those words properly describe your opinion if you don't mean them that way? Clearly you miss the point of casual discrimination entirely. I know it's epicly sad to get annoyed by some internet post by some person I don't even know, but this is exactly the sort of thing everyone has been posting about.

Just because YOU want to use a word doesn't mean its right. I really hate to break it to you, but those words have meanings, dude. Just because you for some crazy reason seem to think that words mean whatever you want them to mean doesn't make that true.

They mean exactly what everyone says they mean and they are insults because being black or gay is supposed to be so beneath human that calling someone that is sure to incite rage.

**BLEEPED BY EDITOR, SORRY, BUT THIS IS A PERSONAL ATTACK -BREE** Sadly, definitions don't work that way. If they ever do though, you can bet I'm gonna make sure "not win the lottery" changes first...

Posted: Jul 14th 2010 3:29PM (Unverified) said

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It was hard to find groups as a Rogue during the first 6 months after the launch of EQ1. I felt that was a little discriminatory.... but we did suck, so... maybe not.

As far as the whole "talking about not game stuff while playing the game" we just have two channels in vent. One where anything goes, and you have been warned, and the other for game talk only. If you don't wanted to be offended, don't go in the other channel.

If you persist in talking about non-game talk in the game-talk only channel, and an officer hears you, you're warned once, and booted from vent. Second offense, booted from the guild.

It's the only rule we have for vent, and it works well. Having said that, we have had to boot a few people from the guild when they went off their meds and were using vent at the time. Oh well, that's life.

Posted: Jul 14th 2010 3:49PM (Unverified) said

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I don't think a policy of "everyone's lives in the closet" is the right way to react to this issue.

Anyway in practice those restrictions are almost always going to be worse for LGBT violators. Who's more likely to get a guy kicked out of the guild?

A. "My girlfriend says the new Spider Man movie is awesome!"
B. "My gay lover says the new Spider Man movie is awesome!"

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Posted: Jul 14th 2010 3:56PM (Unverified) said

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While I have been discriminated against in-game, a few guild members have made some fairly minor gay jokes. I wasn't offended, but it made me realize that you've just got to be plain careful whenever broadcasting to an entire group. I'm pretty certain that no one in my guild realizes that I'm gay and why should they even care? Still, I think we all need to be a bit more respectful of one another when playing.

PS: I'm so happy that there are other gay gamers out there - I thought I was alone in my little LoTRO world!

Posted: Jul 14th 2010 4:06PM fauxcivility said

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I'll never forget when I started WoW and some guy told me he didn't want to talk to me anymore because I was gay @@; I wasn't upfront about it, but after we had been playing for like a week we were talking about valentines day and he asked if I had plans with a girl or something and I must have said "I'm not into girls really..." and then I was dropped :(

Taught me an important lesson though about not telling people you're gay until AFTER they run you through a dungeon.

Posted: Jul 14th 2010 4:17PM (Unverified) said

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I use a lot of these words mentioned as slang also like many people have mentioned and I am far from a gay basher or racist. No I would not use them to insult someone due to their sexual preference or ethnicity. I use them to joke with friends and actually family. My cousin is gay, married and asked me to father their child (lesbians). - my gay reference lol

Also the F word referred to here, has multiple meanings; cigarette, bundle of sticks (well before the negative homosexual meaning) and slang is one of them. Like it or not.

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