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Posted: Jul 11th 2010 7:12PM (Unverified) said

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Inb4 "more stuff you can only do efficiently after a 6 months of training"..

Posted: Jul 11th 2010 9:13PM Dblade said

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I don't know. You can do stuff like ninja salvaging with low SP, but wormhole ops you are going to need to be able to field ships that can tank the sleepers or harvest gas and rare ores efficiently, as well as repulse PvPers. In the plexes in lowsec you may need decent tanking skills to survive. A corp interested in exploration may ask you to train to fit an armor tanked battleship or logi ship. You may want to do cov ops.

It's the general problem of EVE. You can get started in limited roles quick, but to actually get to the meat of the game is a pretty long skill train road.
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Posted: Jul 11th 2010 10:43PM Aetrix said

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That's the general problem of . You can run around the low level zones quick, but to actually get to the meat of the game is a pretty long level grind road.
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Posted: Jul 12th 2010 12:05AM SgtBaker said

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Yeah, join a corp, they can cover for the bits you can't do, but you can still be useful for them by doing limited role stuff. Besides it's much more fun than grinding it alone.

It's a general problem in MMO's - though EVE lets you be useful in groups even with low SP from the start.
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Posted: Jul 12th 2010 3:25AM Dirame said

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Lol, you can start this with at least a month's worth of training. The requirements for exploration have been reduced. If you want to do it "effectively", yea thats a whole different story.
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Posted: Jul 11th 2010 10:44PM Aetrix said

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***That's the general problem of (insert MMORPG name here). ***

P.S. Thanks for stripping out my text, Massively.

Posted: Jul 12th 2010 12:08AM Dblade said

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You can't speed up EVE though. Once you start getting to a certain point you are looking at 6 days + to raise skills just one level, with some taking weeks to months. In other games you can put more effort in for faster progress, in EVE you can be useful in a limited role quickly but its a lot of waiting otherwise.

The realtime training enables you not to need to grind to level, but the trade off is you have to accept the pace they set, and you can't set one yourself. This is a lot of why so many EVE players use alt accounts, because by training for different specs simultaneously they cut down on the time they need to learn.
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Posted: Jul 12th 2010 1:20AM DrewIW said

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You can train up a scanning alt in about a week, I'm not sure what the issue is.

Posted: Jul 12th 2010 3:00AM (Unverified) said

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The problem is, drew, that no new player can make their own destiny as the game advertises. You have to conform to the structure of a Corp until you have trained(auto grinded) until you can reasonably fend for yourself.

I see countless times "you Are never useless, you can always help your Corp" which is semi true. This is why: you are only ever CC when new. This game advertises the heroic and epic feeling of being a lone ranger who finds his or her niche, however, the fact remains: you are only ever viable early on as CC in a fleet battle.

I firmly believe that in a game that advertises as a sandbox that the player should be able to to control his or her rate of character progression. This real time training is B.S.
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Posted: Jul 12th 2010 4:07AM Dirame said

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@Chris

Depends on what you want to do, for exploration you don't need a corp, in general you really need a corp. The only thing a corp helps you do is become more focused on what you want to get done in the game. The only reason I have a corp is so that I can transfer the t3 stuff I get to the people that make my t3 ships and sell it for me.

There is the ability to control the rate at which you train but not in the way I think you're impying it should be. Its called respeccing to the area you're most focused in. This will enable you to train faster in those areas but you only get one respec chance a year, so if you do it today you can only do it again one year from now. New players get two respec chances before the year is out allowing them to correct mistakes they made the first time.
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Posted: Jul 12th 2010 5:21AM kasapina said

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I tried solo exploration as a new player. My ship had to carry the probe launcher, an analyzer, a salvager, and a codebreaker. That took up about half the high slots, leaving the other half for weapons. I tried using a module that lets you refit in space, but that was too much trouble - both for my ship setup and for my skill training plan. The solution was to scan down sites, bookmark, refit in a station and then explore them, but even then I had to carry the salvager and either a codebreaker or an analyzer, sometimes both. This setup made me quite weak in combat, limiting me to 0.7+. Did I mention that I absolutely had to avoid wormholes, that mining complexes I found were often useless and that DED was mostly out of the question? Most of the sites I found were already stripped dry too.

So the only thing I could do was either try to move to lower sectors, where the NPCs could easily destroy me, or mindlessly afk mine for a few weeks while getting skills for a better ship, which I was probably going to blow up and be unable to replace. I was having none of that, so I just quit.

Sure, you could say "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose". But what can a newbie actually fly to get in exploration without having to grind at least a week beforehand?

I have noticed that EvE players value their time a lot less than the general MMO population. For example, if I told a WoW player that the Netherwing grind is 1 hour every day for 2 weeks, they would announce it to be one of the bigger rep grinds in the game. EvE players declare 2 weeks of skill training to be fairly short, and they often say that 6 months of training can easily get you to the levels of the older players in a given area. In most games, 6 months of play would easily net you the title of an experienced, high level player. In EvE, it merely makes you a newbie that can fulfill a specialized role as well as the big boys. Sure, you might say that I don't have to play in those 6 months, but I am absolutely not going to pay them a sub just to have a few digital skills go up.

I think I turned this exploration rank into a general EvE rant, which I didn't mean to. My point was, to be able to tackle anything more than the leftovers in high sec, you have to spend weeks of training for a good ship and enough cash to buy one.
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Posted: Jul 12th 2010 8:47AM (Unverified) said

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@Dirame

You may not REQUIRE a corp but lets be serious here, you won't accomplish much on your own in this game (if anything).

"There is the ability to control the rate at which you train but not in the way I think you're impying it should be. Its called respeccing to the area you're most focused in. This will enable you to train faster in those areas but you only get one respec chance a year, so if you do it today you can only do it again one year from now. New players get two respec chances before the year is out allowing them to correct mistakes they made the first time"

LOL! All I can really say is don't be a totalitarian government and try to tell me that the minor freedoms I may have are much more major than they really are.

@Ambin

"I see alot of downers posting here mainly claiming a new player is not effective and you have to be in a corp. Neither is true.

The problem lies in your expectations being higher than can be delivered. as a new player you aren't going to be making billions of ISK off the bat. It take time."

Oh okay. So it's my feeling I'd like to actually play this game for my own means that is the issue. Understood, Commander.

"Those that don't like corps are missing the main component of EVE. It's not a game about PVP or PVE etc. It is a game about social interaction at it's heart. When you get your head around that then you'll get over the mmo hangups that games like wow etc ingrain."

Terrible description of eve to be honest. Wanna get a drink after we take this belt? Please...

I don't know how it happened, but the implication that EVE is so much harder than any other MMO out there is ludicrous. People confuse difficulty with patience when talking about this game.

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Posted: Jul 12th 2010 1:45PM (Unverified) said

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I think the problem is even in a innocuous topic like intro to exploration, people still fencing over their tastes in MMORPG
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Posted: Jul 12th 2010 4:05AM (Unverified) said

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Back on topic: Good article Brendan. Exploration is not something I've done more than dabble in to date. I always thought anomolies were the ones to go for, but I will look at DED complexes now.

Posted: Jul 12th 2010 4:32AM Amblin said

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I see alot of downers posting here mainly claiming a new player is not effective and you have to be in a corp. Neither is true.

The problem lies in your expectations being higher than can be delivered. as a new player you aren't going to be making billions of ISK off the bat. It take time.

Those that don't like corps are missing the main component of EVE. It's not a game about PVP or PVE etc. It is a game about social interaction at it's heart. When you get your head around that then you'll get over the mmo hangups that games like wow etc ingrain.

Exploring as a newbie player, I can tell you first hand is doable within the 1st month. It doesn't take a corp, but having a corp helps. It's up to you how you play but forget leave your pre-conceptions of an mmo at the door when playing EVE.

Posted: Jul 12th 2010 8:36AM Aetrix said

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"It is a game about social interaction at it's heart. When you get your head around that then you'll get over the mmo hangups that games like wow etc ingrain."

+1
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Posted: Jul 12th 2010 9:00AM benfolds said

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Great article Brendan. I really appreciate your work on EVE. It has opened my eyes to things I hadn't quite considered.

If a new player fully understands the training they need and stays focused on it, instead of venturing off to train for what suites the moment, then I think a player can if a few months time handle most of the high sec stuff.

All my characters right now (3) are in WH space(Class 2). This is brilliant cause it has a high sec hole that spawns everyday, along with a Low sec hole and recently null sec. Makes it easy to get the minerals out to refine and sell and not have to run a refining array, with which there is a 25% penalty.

With that being said, I have a 12mil sp character that is around 8 months old, and he can take out the sleepers in Ore belts, but when it comes to doing Radar and other sights in the hole, must have teamwork. You wont solo these at all.

This is a complex game. I have been playing for over 1 1/2 yrs. and I still learn something new almost everyday. But thats what keeps me hooked.

This game is for those that want something more than a casual affair. It requires a lot of time. That being said, I also enjoy casuals as well. I play WOW on and off, and STO.

In the end you just have to pick a MMO that suits your style and time that you have to spend.

Posted: Jul 12th 2010 9:23AM DeadlyAccurate said

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I do quite a bit of solo exploration, mostly in highsec, but sometimes in wormholes. For a T1 setup, you can fit a Moa with all the modules and still have room for a standard missile launcher (either one or two, I can't remember; I'm using T2 frigates now). That means you'll only be able to take out frigate rats, but I've found lots of sites that have nothing but a handful of rats and still have some good stuff to pick up.

Posted: Jul 12th 2010 10:43AM Kalex716 said

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It takes like 2 weeks to train up a drake that can kill class 1 sleepers solo (and even class 2 on few warp outs) on a brand new account. All the while you are training that up on trial, you can be doing level 2 missions to save up to buy the drake and its fittings.

I realize that the game does have limitations with skill points, but with a little research, and some player ingenuity you would be surprised at what under skilled players are really capable of. People allow skill curves and forum banter to be the reason why they can't do x, y, or z; but if they actually set goals and go and try and achieve things on their own they would probably realize theirs infinite solutions to a lot of problems. Sure, it won't be the most efficient or the effective way, but theirs a lot to be said about doing things on the short and getting the job done.
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Posted: Oct 3rd 2010 10:06PM (Unverified) said

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Brendan, love your EVE articles. Keep em coming. I've been playing about 18 months now, about 21 mil skill points. My corp regularly runs wormholes and L4s, but I have a lot of problems finding COSMOS agent missions or DED complexes, in highsec or lowsec.

One week I spent about 10 hours scanning about 20 solar systems, found a bunch of anoms and wormholes, but no DEDs. Really, really frustrating. Please post a guide to these in more detail.

Regarding previous posts, EVE is a deep game, and you are always learning new aspects of it, depending on your personal level of adventure, curiosity, and social ability to join other players for fleet operations. It is NOT a good solo game.

The rigid skilling mechanic is annoying, as are many clunky aspects of the UI. Many things in this game seemed to be designed in the least intuitive way possible. It's definitely an acquired taste.

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