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Reader Comments (29)

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 2:49PM Arkanaloth said

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I read the article a bit ago and I really do like the sound of what they're proposing. I really hope it works as intended.

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 2:55PM Daverator said

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Sounds like they are renaming healing. As I always preferred a Prot Monk anyways, doesn't seem a lot different.

Maybe they will amaze me when it actually happens though.

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 2:57PM Serious Table said

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Finally, someone is taking a good step back and looking over this Holy Trinity archetype we've put ourselves in. I'm glad it's gone from "Aggro Maker with a Healer, then everyone else DPS" to controlling a mob (not its attention or threat meter) and supporting your allies. I've said it once before and every other article that comes out about Guild Wars 2: This game is shaping up to be my dream MMO.

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 2:58PM HackJack said

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If they go on like this I might actually have to give up life and dedicate myself entirely to GW2....

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 3:05PM (Unverified) said

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I'm definitely going to miss my monk but this is all sounding very promising.

Much love for ArenaNet.

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 3:03PM Sunlover said

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Love this. All of it. Really like the "Downed Mode" idea and the "Reviving" mechanic. Reminds me of certain first/third person shooter/action games where you can get a few last shots off before you die and once you fall your teammates can come to your rescue by clearing the area of enemies or applying a bandage/first aid/rez on you. Brilliant. Battles are going to be fast paced and fun if this works out the way I imagine it.

I especially like their philosophy on death penalties: "Why should we debuff you, take away experience, or make you run around for five minutes as a ghost instead of letting you actually play the game? Defeat is the penalty; we don't have to penalize you a second time." This is something I've believed for quite some time and have said myself many times during discussions on the subject.

It's great to know that Arenanet is really emphasizing the fun factor in Guild Wars 2. I absolutely cannot wait until release.

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 9:30PM GaaaaaH said

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I disagree on the Death Penalty one, I found the DP an enjoyable mechanic in GW1 that penalized you, but not too much at first and you were able to work at it to reduce it.

No DP reminds me of STO and just spawn/dieing until you can overcome the obstacle which was less fun
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Posted: Jul 9th 2010 9:57AM (Unverified) said

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@ Tempes Magus

"Death penalties suck and are pointless especially if you have to resurrect at a set point well away from where you were or where you were headed."
Pointless? If everyone continually lived then there would be no point to the game. Both in PVP or PVE, you die, you will be punished. It is about skill and learning.

"FPS games are perfectly enjoyable with just a very short wait for respawn and maybe a run back. Only the mmo industry has ever felt the need to punish people for dying."
Two totally different genres. And of course FPS games punish you, as much but just in a different way. Take CS, you die, not only does your team lose a chance to win (since losing you is a disadvantage) but also the fact that you are forced to stop playing. You are out of the game. AND you will be surprised, overall you'll be waiting in a FPS game more then a MMORPG. In that sense, MMORPGs are more effective death pen, they keep you playing while FPS don't.

All games have death pens. Moronic to think MMORPGs are different in that sense. No, MMORPG just have unique ways for death pens because of the genre it is. Either way, Demon's Souls was the best RPG last year (yes, it was better then *yawn* DA:O) and had a huge death pen.


When you have casuals like Keen debating death pens, then you know that MMORPGs if anything should make the tougher (yet different). Of course that is not to say that I think it should be easy to die, quite the opposite, a heavy death pen should only be included if it is clear that a player got outclassed (hence messed up, and be punished).
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Posted: Jul 8th 2010 3:06PM (Unverified) said

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This... is just perfect. In every other MMO I read about I think "meh don't like that, but I suppose I can overlook it" but here they just keep saying better and better things. It's just great ideas all over the place, and more importantly: not a single bad one. Letting "prot monks" carry over and skipping the healing ones is a great idea that takes the best part of GWs PvP and skips the boring part of it. This game just sounds so awesome. I'm so fucking hyped.

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 3:38PM samkash said

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I'll tell you my favorite part of this article... right at the end:

"Knockdown is one of the strongest forms of control in Guild Wars 2, but you won't see a character that can just keep knocking someone down indefinitely, and you won't see a knockdown that puts an enemy out for so long that they won't be able to react."

I love pvp in GW, but there are so many skills nowadays, that sins and wars and others, can just knock u down to the point that u never had a chance to swing once. If they can prevent those kind of ridiculous situations, I'll be even more impressed with this game...

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 3:56PM Wisdomandlore said

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Good to see MMO developers looking outside of the genre. Gears of War was the first game I remember that had a down but not out feature. You can shoot enemies while immobile. Other characters must revive you. Left4Dead copied it wholesale. GW2's is right from Borderlands, where you can get a Second Wind and come back if you kill an enemy while down. I loved it in Borderlands and it sounds fun in a MMO. It goes right in hand with GW2's design philosophy, which is to encourage players to work together rather than force them. It works in GoW, L4D, and Borderlands, why not a MMO.

I'm a little ambivalent to the lack of a healer, but I'm willing to wait and see how it works out. I always play the healer (except ironically in GW; I hated the art style of Monks :P ). As long as there is some class that has support spells and some of the flavor of a Priest/Healer (and they hint that there is), I'll be perfectly happy. It's like they said, no one has fun watching green bars. Players have fun supporting and saving their teammates.

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 3:59PM Minofan said

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Guild wars 2 news is always the remedy for MMO apathy. ^_^

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 11:17PM Its Utakata stupid said

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And a source of salvation from MMO's that plan to do really dumb things. :)
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Posted: Jul 8th 2010 4:05PM Dumac said

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I'm happy about the tanking and healing or lack thereof, but i have doubts about the death mechanic. It always felt like cheating in Bordelands, to be on your knees and dieing in one minute, and alive and kicking in the next minute, only because something else managed to die by your hands before you did. It never felt like actual defeat, what felt like defeat was to be back at the spawn point.

Also i am a little apprehensive about things being too easy. Not that i am one of those that support punishment for no good reason, but some sense of satisfaction comes not from just "being good", but from being a good elementalist, or being a good warrior, ritualist, etc. There's a worlds difference, in my opinion, and im hoping that the revised mechanics don't take that away by completely blurring the roles.

I don't know. I hope i can think differently or be proven wrong once i actually play it or see it on video. Other than that, sounds great, as usual.

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 5:05PM (Unverified) said

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I somehow doubt they will let GW become "easy". Even running incredibly gimmicky things like SF tanks or 600/smite monks required skill to be able to accomplish what they did in the original GW. The other thing about GW was that it let you get faster and faster as you got better. Sure, even a team of only mesmers could clear UW, but it them hours. A good team could get the job done in 1/4 the time. I always saw gw as a game where if it got too easy you just made bigger and bigger pulls. It was always a test of how efficiently you could get the job done. Even if you could solo elite areas with Hero/hench, a skilled all human team could get the job done much faster which meant more points/gold per time invested.

So long as they keep this same idea around and dont simplify combat to the point where there is little difference between a skilled and unskilled player with stuff like forced downtime to regen health/heal or wait for cooldowns the game will always be able to played faster and faster even if noobs can finish it without much trouble.
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Posted: Jul 8th 2010 4:28PM Dracones said

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MMO's evolve and it's nice to see GW2 leading the pack. In fact, the idea of the "holy trinity" itself has evolved. It used to mean tank, healer and crowd control(enchanter). But crowd control is pretty much a bygone game mechanic anymore.

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 4:59PM (Unverified) said

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It's not tanking... IT'S BETTER.
It's not healing... IT'S BETTER.
It's not questing... IT'S BETTER.

Seeing a pattern here, not the first time I've heard some revolutionary ideas thrown around. Interested to see if they truly are better.

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 5:06PM (Unverified) said

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Considering that tanking via agro or threat didn't exist in GW1, and proactive healing/buffing through prot monks did exist in gw1, I think we can atleast accept that these ideas already have been seen working and hopefully ANET has found a way to improve upon them. Although I wouldn't complain too much if they left the class roles and mechanics as they were in GW1, there really wasn't that much that a group of people made of random classes + a healer hench or 2 couldnt finish.
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Posted: Jul 8th 2010 7:07PM Myria said

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Agro didn't exist, but tanking sure did and it was hardly "better". Anyone remember the (oh-so-many) days of "Benny HIll" AI? There was nothing new about the mechanics whatsoever, they just had the dead dumbest AI in the history of gaming -- for understandable reasons, mind you -- and the players adapted.

As for healing -- A prot monk by any other name...

If there's anything MMO history teaches, it's that the higher the hype meter the bigger the turkey.

GW2's hype meter is perma-pegged at 11.

Honestly, I really hope GW2 is great, but the ludicrous level of hype and idiotic stuff like this really leaves me with little hope it'll do anything but tank hard.
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Posted: Jul 8th 2010 10:59PM Vandal said

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It's easy to understand a degree of doubt toward any hype given the tremendous failures the MMO genre has seen in recent years by those who were supposed to be the 'big names' of the old-school crowd like Garriott, McQuaid, Jacobs etc.

The difference is that ArenaNet isn't made up of that old-school crowd which is why they're so willing to fix the flaws, or rather the 'traditions', of past MMOs. Plus ArenaNet has already shown they can make a modern online game that sold millions. That's no guarantee their next game will be a success, but it puts their hype at another level in my book.
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