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Reader Comments (23)

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 8:12AM Lt Cobalt said

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Kick him out swifting and make an example of him to instil fear of failure into the rest, has worked for five years.

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 9:24AM Oarix said

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ooo, Mike. You're so scary! I would hate to be made an example of in your groups! Consider myself instilled with 'fear' from here on out, sir. What must it be like to draw such a hard line, 'instiling fear' to all those that derive such an emotion from a video game?
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Posted: Jul 8th 2010 3:03PM Tassels said

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This works fine in PUGs, but in a guild run it just makes you look like a dick and causes all sorts of drama.
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Posted: Jul 8th 2010 8:21AM kasapina said

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Explain, again and again. If he clearly lacks the English skills/IQ required to use the Internet, kick him without any regrets.

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 8:41AM (Unverified) said

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**DELETED BY EDITOR -- COME ON, THAT WAS OBSCENE AND UNNECESSARY. THINK THESE THINGS, DON'T SAY THEM. -BREE**

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 9:01AM (Unverified) said

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I take my head away from the mic, and do a Gunnery Seargent Hartman impression as loud as I can.

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 9:29AM Tom in VA said

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I never have these sorts of problems, since "endgame" usually equals "raiding", and I want NO part of that.

The problem with most MMOs is that they transform very fundamentally and aberrantly (like a butterfly morphing into an ugly caterpillar) for their endgame content from casual, solo-friendly, and small group-friendly games (which I like) into group-intensive gear-centric, grind-fests (which I detest).

So, that's about the point I (i) start an alt or (ii) move on to another game. ;)

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 10:10AM Wensbane said

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My feelings exactly, Tom.

I also find it amusing how some people simply refuse to understand exactly why I LOATHE "raiding" - no matter how many times I try to explain myself - but it appears I'm not alone.

More engaging small group content to the corner table, please!
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Posted: Jul 8th 2010 9:35AM Dread said

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MORE DOTS!!!!

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 9:39AM mifuneseven said

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I usually handle it by having a good laugh with the person. I figure my life has enough stress so why let a game change my mood for the worse. If I am grouped with them then they are a friend (I don't go for forced grouping/pugs) so we should beable to laugh about how we exploded on screen while I explain it once again. I find that people perform better when the focus is on the fun experience of the game and not under the pressure of making them sound like a disappointment and a 'noob'.

Posted: Jul 10th 2010 2:43PM HereticalPenguin said

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i wish more players were like you ;)
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Posted: Jul 8th 2010 10:23AM Heraclea said

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This is why progression raiding very quickly sours me on any game that features it.

There are several reasons. Probably the most important one is that games ought to be fun to play. The more fancy choreography you need to beat an encounter, the greater the odds that a single player out of place, a second too late to react, or doing the wrong thing, leads to failure. This strains the camaraderie of the game experience and leads to drama. I do not enjoy those things. Drama, especially, sours me on the game itself.

I also tend to favor survival oriented melee DPS classes. Gimmick encounters always seem to disfavor them. The most common gimmicks all seem to require you to move away from the boss, stop moving at all, or feature unresistable damage. The more complicated the gimmick fight, the likelier it is that a team needs to have a specific mix of player characters with specific specs to beat it. And the more specific the ideal team becomes, the greater the odds are that it doesn't include you.

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 11:01AM Stormwaltz said

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Watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo

Then read this:

http://www.eldergame.com/2010/06/deathtrap-design-and-the-invisible-gorilla/

Take-away: humans are biologically limited to keeping track of a few things at a time. Some people who screw up during a raid are simply bumping against their brain's hardware limitations.

So I can't resist making the pithy comment that many raids aren't designed for human beings to play. :)

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 2:14PM Tassels said

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The invisible gorilla works because you are told to "count the passes" or some other random task, and you do not expect a moonwalking gorilla to walk through the people, so you simply don't see it. However, this shouldn't be extended to boss fights. Boss fights are different, you should be fully aware of your surroundings, and pretty much any group will wipe a few times (at least) on a new boss while they get the hang of the fight and what the boss does. Once everyone knows what the boss does (aka knows that a gorilla walks through the room), nobody should miss random aspects of the fight (the gorilla).

So this isn't an excuse, and it shouldn't be made as an excuse. The boss fights aren't the problem. It's people getting lazy and not paying attention. None of the bosses in this game are actually legitimately "hard". Hard modes are a lot harder than the easy version of the fights, sure. You have to do more DPS, take more damage, heal more damage, watch out for more random shit they throw at you, maybe deal with a couple new mechanics. But the damage, dps, and healing is usually dealt with by better gear. Plus in icecrown there's a 25% (soon 30%) buff across the board. So you really only have to worry about the shit they throw at you. And you want to take most of that away? That's what makes the fights challenging, and makes it more dependent on you as a player rather than the gear you farmed up.
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Posted: Jul 8th 2010 4:16PM Stormwaltz said

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If you read the article on Elder Game, the metaphor is that each person in a raid has an assigned task to focus on. That could be "count basketballs," that could be "heal anyone who gets under 50% health." They will tend to focus on the information pertinent to their role to such a degree that information judged "irrelevant" will be filtered out.

So it's possible that someone is so busy managing health meters, their threat level, their dps, or what have you, that they completely fail to notice they're standing in a ring of fire that burns, burns, burns.

It's possible to train yourself to add that awareness to your task load, but at that point you're literally retraining your brain to focus less on one task and be more capable of multi-tasking. That's not something everyone can accomplish, though everyone can try.
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Posted: Jul 8th 2010 11:23AM nomoredroids said

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I explain the way I see it going wrong, and I do so calmly. Even if I have to do it a million times. I like teaching and I like helping people improve their game. If they refuse to admit they're wrong or just don't listen even after we wipe over and over, then they're out. That's normally not the case though, and I'm more inclined to punt the retard getting upset and angry about the poor guy who can't play WoW (and sadly I do that way more often).

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 11:25AM Jeromai said

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I don't do the progression raiding endgame much, especially not in WoW, so I just had to click on the pseudo-Gregorian chant link. LOL. Sounds fairly good, ironically.

Am another one of those who avoid over-convoluted raids. Too much drama. Too much cat-herding. Too much obsession over shiny glowing pixels and lost tempers over people rubbing each other the wrong way. Pfft.

I PUG a lot, so if the weakest link seems chronically incapable of learning, I just walk away. Chalk up another funny PUG horror story.

Before that though, I'd hope that there were a couple patient and understanding attempts to demo what the person was supposed to do. We were all newbies once, and if the guy looks and sounds like he's trying, there's a certain naches emotion (pride or pleasure in the accomplishment of a child or mentee) when he finally gets it after enough practice.

Guys who don't even try, and don't communicate at all... or aren't willing to learn and don't shut up about it, though... Ick. I'm out.

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 11:47AM Djinn said

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I don't do endgame progression raiding, but I've some mid-high PUG raids and that's the worst. You wait and wait for your group to fill, then when you start there's some 12 yr old running and jumping about who triggers something before everyone's ready. One raid the same idiot did it twice in a row.

What irritates me is not people getting upset about it, but leaders who have more respect for the idiot than the 22 other people wasting their time waiting for something to reset.

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 12:45PM Patrick Mackey said

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This is just too good a question not to answer.

It depends on "just doesn't get it." If you explain something to someone (and we're talking about MMO instancing here, so not very difficult to explain) and they are unwilling to listen or unable to understand what you are telling them, kick them. Make sure everyone else knows why they are kicked, too.

If someone just sucks, but is obviously trying - that is, if they can explain to you exactly what they need to do, but just fail at doing it - it is best left to a group decision, which more than likely will keep the person. However, if the person continues to be a leecher, you really have no choice but to kick them.

It's best in either case that you let people know that it's not personal, that they have to be let go for the sake of the entire raid. Some people will be jerks, other people will become better for it.

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 4:29PM wjowski said

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If he doesn't get it, just kick him and find someone who does.

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