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Reader Comments (137)

Posted: Jul 3rd 2010 4:56PM Emolition said

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"WoW was a completely different game than EQ1. Let's not forget that it brought the quest system for primarily solo-leveling, instances, flying flight-paths, dances,"

hmmm swg that was out long before wow had a class that didnt do anything else but dance called dancer so wow didnt bring dancing to games=P
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Posted: Jul 3rd 2010 11:04AM paraLogiki said

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I'm slightly worried about the holy trinity, but I accept it's existence to a degree.

My thing is everyone's #1 defense to the "what if we don't have a tank/healer" is "oh you forget about companions". Unless the AI is incredible I can't see a companion being the only tank for a group, know what I mean. Companions as damage or even healing, maybe I can see, how hard is it to "watch health bars" and heal (because that's so fun).

Posted: Jul 3rd 2010 11:59AM Tom in VA said

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Well, I actually preferred using the companions ("Heroes") in Guild Wars to actual players sometimes. In some ways it was more difficult, because you had to manage them but, frankly, companion AI can often be better than human AI.

The companions in Dragon Age had adjustable AI that was really pretty good. I trust the companion AI in SWTOR will be at least as good as that.
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Posted: Jul 3rd 2010 11:12AM Wisdomandlore said

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I've commented before on how unoriginal SWTOR seems in many respects. But there are several innovations shown on in this video, some of which, IMO, are quite big.

1. PCs and NPCs actually REACT to getting hit. They block, parry, and stagger in real time. That right there is a huge improvement over nearly every MMO out there.
2. An interactive cut-scene for the entire group. What other game allows a whole group to get involved in the story?
3. Dynamic instances that you don't even have to zone into. They're created seamlessly, on the fly.
4. Players have to manage multiple enemies instead of ganging up on one. Other games have tried this, but it usually boils down to CCing everything so you can pound on one guy, or having the tank gather every enemy so you can AOE them. It looks like SWTOR is trying to move away from this.

So, no, SWTOR is not going to be a revolution in the MMO field. But in a short, low level video they already showed off several improvements over the current field of MMOs. Cut the game some slack.

Posted: Jul 4th 2010 12:41AM Valdur said

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Quote :
"So, no, SWTOR is not going to be a revolution in the MMO field. But in a short, low level video they already showed off several improvements over the current field of MMOs. Cut the game some slack."

I was expecting better than a single player with co-op from a publisher/company claiming that it/they will have more than a million subscriptions.Yes "SWTOR is not going to be a revolution in the MMO field" but is indeed a revolution in Massively single player field.
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Posted: Jul 3rd 2010 11:31AM Lateris said

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No offense but...Attention easy wanting all class healers for all classes types of humanoids. Not going to happen. Bioware puts the "G" in RPG.

Posted: Jul 3rd 2010 12:14PM Seare said

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Wow, some of you are really dense. The purpose of this demo was not to wow anyone, but to debunk the idea that TOR is nothing but an online single-player game. Use that gray matter if you can.

Posted: Jul 3rd 2010 12:17PM Sigma7 said

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so basically it was a Warrior tanking the Mob, a Ranger off-tanking the Adds while a Druid gave support and the Cleric did the whole Healing..

so how is this different from current MMO's? seems rather bland to me.

Posted: Jul 3rd 2010 7:13PM (Unverified) said

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and they have been making shooters for years.... how many CODs are out?

Just because a game follows a certain formula because of the genre its in doesnt make it less fun.

Lets look at the game that tried to stray away from the typical MMO archetype: WAR.

Its a failing game and a large reason is that there is too much dps and at the same time too much healing.

However, the only thing that WAR did innovate and in my mind successful, was the WP.

Althought doomsayers will be doomsayers, BIOware can improve on that archetype with graphics, story, gameplay and reducing the treadmill.
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Posted: Jul 3rd 2010 4:32PM (Unverified) said

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Please, do tell how to properly balance an encounter where party members are not required to fill certain roles. How on earth do you make such an encounter challenging for parties that actually are willing to organize roles?

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Posted: Jul 3rd 2010 2:46PM (Unverified) said

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To be a funny mmo, the jedi should never be a playable class.

Posted: Jul 3rd 2010 5:14PM Ingrod said

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Jedi Knight doing DPS and tanking a Sith officer.
Smuggler doing CC and healing the Jedi Knight.
Jedi Consular healing and also doing DPS.
Trooper tanking and doing DPS.

Where is the hard holy trinity that all the people are seeing? I see a pretty dinamic combat. And presume that the roles here are mainly for demo purposes, how has been explained in some interviews.

If the smugglers can heal is not the infamous trinity diluted a bit?

Only is a modified level 8 instance without advanced skills or companions to show the more basic combat. People are overreading and overreacting here.

Also every class is split in two advanced classes with three skill trees each, two advanced class exclusive and one common to the main class, ending in 8 advanced different classes by faction, not only four. In example the JC is mainly CC and support, have both roles.

We need see more combat situations and more skill pools for every class before judge anything.

Posted: Jul 3rd 2010 5:24PM Graill440 said

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The hard holy trinity as per the exact quote by a dev at e3 makes it hard. And i do not like it.
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Posted: Jul 3rd 2010 9:52PM Ingrod said

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Really? The most of the dev comments that I read go exactly in the opposite direction. They wants add class versatility and flexibility to the classic trinity.

For curiosity, was this cuote?:

"When we first started, we really wanted to make sure that we included the things that made parties work strongly together, but we didn't want to wind up locked into a hard trinity system."

http://darthhater.com/2010/06/16/e3-daniel-erickson-interview/page/1

The fact is that in the demo the smuggler were healing when his supposed role is only be DPS, also the Jedi Cosular is defined how control class, and in this situation is the healer.

And the final fact is that none MMORPG live or die for pre-launch impresions or missconceptions.
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Posted: Jul 4th 2010 4:09AM (Unverified) said

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Ingrod,
i watched the same video you did.

i saw the same multi faceted abilities being used by the classes because i, just like you, actually listened and watched as opposed to sitting there with my face screwed up going "ok so what's this phail about then ?" from the intro onwards while having my browser simultanously open ready to convay my bileastic wisdom to the awaiting internet as soon as the clip came to an end if not before.

people see what they want to see and most people who post here seem to want something to disparage.

or to put it in langauge they might better understand "Haters Gonna Hate"


sw:tor is is built to be accessible by the general public in terms of hardware requirements, interface familiarity, inital simplicity and last but by no means least IP recognisability and tbth i think Blizzard knows their going to take a beating hence why they are destroying a world people know and love and fulfilling nearly every player wishlist from the last 5 years in the hope of further sustaining wow while at the same time repopulating it with tired "reskins" and lolore bullcrap because they've basically run out of the good stuff since they've ended the WC3 storyline . . . badly.

imo this game will sell big, be widely percived as "good" by the gerneral public (thats not you guys here mmmkay) and thus be widely played and just possibly herald the end of wows market dominance.

and that's a good thing for the MMO market whatever type of MMO you actually want to see.
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Posted: Jul 3rd 2010 5:21PM Graill440 said

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First and foremost...Choice, if i want to take my gaggle of 2-6 friends, none being a healer, am i to expect that because the dev interview stated clearly at e3 "if you do not have the correct party combination you will fail" WHY?!

These companies are so far out of touch with actual gamers i compare them to vice president Biden telling the custard shop manager he is a smartass for cracking a joke, the devs think that there must be a healer, there must be a tank, there must be dps, there must be cc, apparently the billions of fantasy novels disagree, with the odd party or even single person being a hero with a less than perfect combination of crew.

Is it because the money model and the plan for how players will interact with the game over time is the driving factor?

I want choice, on how i play and whom i play with and the ability to solve any encounter in multiple ways, if i pay the same fee as anyone else i want the same access, regrdless of time played.

These devs stated they were going to change the "MMO outlook" in the very first interview they had, everyone can be a hero.....now several interviews later guess what, standard MMO mechanics, so what happened between doing things they way we want and now doing things in a specific way with a specific party? Who in bioware stuck their paw into the pot and soured it?

Just an entertainment junkie concerned over the evolution this game has taken in a few months, not for the better.

Posted: Jul 3rd 2010 7:53PM (Unverified) said

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Such a beautiful picture you paint. But how would you go about balancing all those different ways with one another in such a way that none of them is superior to the others in enough extent to make the encounter trivial for that setup or conversely impossible for the other setups? I do dare :)
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Posted: Jul 3rd 2010 6:29PM (Unverified) said

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It is WOW in space with lesser options. Clearly a cross between the instances of ST, the companions of GW and the trinity of EQ/WOW.

Oh but wait, there is no playable space ...

So it is WOW with Light sabres.

How unique.

Btw compare this fight with a dungeon or raid fight in WOW and it is surprising how a 6 year old game has more effects and varied gameplay than this wanna be.

EA: how many duds will you put out before you'll release the chamber is taken, the chair is occupied and people already play WOW ...

Posted: Jul 4th 2010 4:28AM (Unverified) said

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everyone i've ever talk to at length in wow is/was looking for another game (yes i'm fully aware that's anecdotal tyvm)

they've lost 3 times as many subscribers as currently play it (Rob Pardo)

that's (by their count) over 30 million people (and probably a huge chunk of the entire current MMO market who are prepared to now play other games)

70% of people who try it don't play past level 10 (Mike Morhaime)

they game is firmly focused on "casual gamers" now who almost by definition have no inherant loyalty to the game or franchise and has become an online theme park based on its former self.

it's lined up for a massive fall if at any time it becomes perceived as "old hat" by said "casual gamers"

as that man said "don't get cocky kid"
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Posted: Jul 4th 2010 1:15PM (Unverified) said

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@miko.

The only one getting cocky is apparently you.

Look at this game video: it simply offers nothing compared to a 6 year old game and so it will quickly join the faith of those other so called "killers".

It suffices to look around 20 seconds into a game play and I know it.Lotro, War, Aoc, TR, Vg, Aion, I could go on.

One game with a yearly 1.25 billion dollar revenue and a few cents for the others (if they even survived as P2P games)...

Terrible video, that shows Bioware is only good at TELLING stories, not at making great video games.





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