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Posted: Jun 28th 2010 3:01PM C Rose said

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Overhyped?...Maybe, but in the capable hands of Bioware and the beloved IP of Star Wars, it's hard not to believe this game will be pretty special. Also, there's not alot of MMO developers that I believe have a good grasp on what their perspective community wants more than Bioware. If this title was being released by another company, ANY other company, I'd have excitement mixed with trepidation about what they will do with the often maligned Star Wars universe, but I trust these guys and most other people seem to as well, and that's where I think the "HYPE" stems from. WE TRUST BIOWARE!....(for now).... :)

Posted: Jun 29th 2010 1:41AM Crode said

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I trusted the IP up until they made the Ep1-3 movies. Also Bioware isn't a MMO developer yet :)
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Posted: Jun 28th 2010 3:24PM Draccan said

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We are in 2010. And all that gaming companies like Bioware try to offer the exhausted mmo space is a new game just like all the others with dated gameplay.

Think about it! Take off your Bioware or Star Wars glasses. SW: TOR offers nothing new but voice overs which means nothing for actual gameplay.

We have ships as housing? No space at launch. Stuck in rigid classes. The usual healer-dps-tank triangle. Raids, check. Battleground as pvp (meaning no real pvp and meaning the open world will suffer). No real crafting in depth. Etc.

Where are the truly immersive games? Games reaching out and letting you touch and create your own world? Sure there is Eve, but what about games where you control a humanoid avatar?

Mortal Online and Darkfall are not top notch games and they too don't understand that we need the whole palette.

Almost all mmos today does not justify a monthly subscription. Why should we pay 15$ pr. month for something with little staying power? Why pay subscriptions for gloried singleplayer games or muliplayer combat rooms?

Makes no sense!

Posted: Jun 28th 2010 3:45PM Xtofer said

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I'm not sure what you're needing. Like, I mean, I've heard the argument of "they're not innovating" before, but what is there to innovate when you have a tried-and-true method of game-play as in EQ or WoW. That's why they're polishing things up with the voice overs, etc. They're attempting to make a good thing better. That's where the hype comes from. Whether or not the game will live up to it is another story, and trust me, I'm not a Star Wars fanboy, but I see the value in what they're attempting.

So, I pose these questions: What is there to innovate? What do you think would be outside the box? I see your argument, and it may hold more water if people like you could just come up with that new thing that you're craving. Until then, the games will be just the way they are. And people like me will enjoy them. No game will ever be perfect, but I think things are just fine.
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Posted: Jun 28th 2010 4:04PM Ingrod said

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Not all MMOs must be sandbox or SWG pre-CU clones to be good MMOs.

Also healer/DPS/tank trinity is not confirmed. The Jedi Consul is not a healer dedicated class, is a CC and support class, not healer. Only appear healing too often for demo purposes. See interviews and E3 demo hands on by Darth Hater. All class were flexible and have more of one role in combat. In example in the demo smuggler was healing too, and the trooper acted how a tank/DPS when this role in theory is occupied by the Jedi Knight

Weeks ago people was complaining about SWTOR being no more that a single player RPG with chat and co-op options, now people complain that "Ok, is not single player, is a real MMO, but, but, but is WoW with an Star Wars skin"

The demo was designated for show clearly to people that SWTOR is really a multiplayer MMO game, and for that people now blame them for be "uninnovative" and WoW clone..., with only two bits of infomation more that the week previous to E3.

I only expect some more demos and hands-ons, or my own experience, after judge this or any game.

For me the game will be a KOTOR maked MMO, is KOTOR and ME single games you have levels, classes, loots, leveling by kill mobs, limited crafting options, ships but no real space combat, no space zones, quests, are the KOTOR or MEs game WoW clones too for have all these things? For what reason Bioware must now make something different to what we have see in their single-player RPG? After all is the Bioware MMO.

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Posted: Jun 28th 2010 3:36PM J Brad Hicks said

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Here's why it's over-hyped, from Computer and Video Game News:
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According to the latest report from Sterne Agee's Arvind Bhatia, The Old Republic - which EA is already calling its "largest ever development project, period, in the history of the company," - needs to acquire at least one million subscribers to recoup hefty development costs.

After exiting a meeting with EA, Bhatia reported: "Earnings are somewhat depressed due to ongoing expenses of the Star Wars MMO, management has high hopes for this and believes 2M+ subs is possible."
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And if it doesn't hit one million subscribers, not just people who bought the game but subscribers, in the second month, what comes next? The same thing that every MMO that has spent anywhere near that much money has had to do: aggressive cost cutting, laying off of 2/3rds of the GMs and 3/4ths of the developers. They will, of course, say the same thing every lame MMO developer has said ("this is a normal part of the product development life cycle"). And then when the game gets to be 3, 4 months old, and no new content has shipped, the rate of subscriber loss becomes meteoric.

Posted: Jun 28th 2010 3:54PM (Unverified) said

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2 million subscribers is such a tall benchmark to hit, especially if they want to hit that off the bat. They could possibly do it but given that the best non-Wow mmo I know of is Eve with their 350k subs (which is a raging success, and I'm not counting mmos that tap into the asian market), I'm not holding my breath.
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Posted: Jun 28th 2010 4:35PM Draccan said

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@xtofer

What about releasing the things I mentioned, proper deep crafting, include a space component, freedom? Just herd gamers into fixed classed, pure combat, mostly pve, battlegrounds..

It is not just about innovation, but hell yea, throw some of that into the mix too. What about a new approach to classes? Drop the healers? Healers doesn't make sense in Star Wars anyways.

How about give players a chance to permanently change the environment? What about AI for npcs... real random events affecting the game worlds?

Hell even EVE has ONE server..

think out of the box.. what you are saying is lame... it's like saying in the early nineties... "hell we don't need the Internet"

Posted: Jun 28th 2010 4:17PM Xtofer said

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I think your last comment there is a tad melodramatic, yeah? I'm just saying that the laundry list of things you want in a game does not equal what they're putting out for this particular game, nor does it innovate. You just want a lot of perks. Sounds like you want ... Vanguard? Or EVE on land? Dude, just play those games.

It just sounds like this isn't your type of MMO, you know, the traditional type, which is fine. I'm sure there will come a time where there will be something that fits right with you, but that doesn't mean that this won't be popular or successful.

As for a healing class, what do you want in exchange? Self-healing or something? That sounds a bit boring to me. The high risk of being dependent on another player to survive while you thrash against a big bad makes for a good grouped experience. Not saying that I agree that it fits within the Star Wars universe or whatever; rather, I'm just saying that it works in MMOs in general, and people enjoy those roles. The people that are making TOR are just conforming to that. If it's done well, I'm not sure why it'd be so offensive to you.

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Posted: Jun 28th 2010 5:07PM Samael said

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What you want is something I hope that they do not do. I hate open world PvP with a passion. It ruins my gameplay when someone who can go around with 4-5 other players and hunt people who are just trying to enjoy the PvE. Why do I have to suffer so that you can have fun? And you say battlegrounds like that is the final thing. We do not know exactly what War Zones will be like. So lets not jump to conclusions here.

The idea of single server is not fun either, as it would mean complete open world PvP for people who are just not interested. You cannot ask others to play like you would like to. I am not interested in PvP, and I do not like dying in PvP at all, specially when I am not looking for a fight. This idea of a single server is just bad for people who prefer just PvE. Everyone gets a choice with PvP and PvE servers. Maybe two servers then? One for PvE one for open PvP? You know what would happen in EvE if it had a consensual PvP server, where you would have to want to fight someone else to be able to be attacked by someone else? A vast majority of the players would move to that server leaving the PvPers to fight amongst themselves. (The last few lines were an assumption based on earlier discussion from a lot of months back on Massively, I do not hold these to be truths, but rather shallow observations)

As for rigid classes, well that provides structure to a game and that is fine with me and apparently a lot of others. You want less rigid classes, there is always EvE, and I would also recommend Champions Online for that type of thing.

Players changing the environment is a possibility that they stated. Players will affect the republic vs empire war. Other than that, changing the environment permanently would mean that the casuals would be left out of the game world.

Random events in the game world, that does sound like fun, I will give you that one. Good idea there, and I hope that someone implements it soon.

So please outline for me and yourself what you want exactly, because SWTOR was never meant for the hardcore PvP guy or the sandbox guy. BioWare makes amazing stories and guides you through them, and I love them for it. This was never going to be the game you were looking for.

I hope to god that they get you something that you like sometime soon, but the sad thing is that you are a very small market and only niche games will serve that market. Play EvE for a challenge and see if you like that. Why can we both not co-exist? Choose your game, I have chosen mine.
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Posted: Jun 29th 2010 1:49AM Crode said

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Samael, Bioware can make a great story (in a single player game). If that is true then why make it an MMO. They will have to embrace the MMO experience if it is to last for any length of time. Just like any upcoming game, they need to take the positive parts of MMO and remove the negative parts. (And PvP is not a negative)
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Posted: Jun 28th 2010 4:22PM Jamis7 said

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Why does this game have so much hype? Maybe it's because websites keep writing massive article about how much hype the game has. I'm pretty sure I've already read several articles on massively alone asking the same question this article ask.

This game has a lot of hype and for good reasons.

1. It's Star Wars. That's one of the biggest IPs ever. You put Star Wars on anything and people are going to take notice.

2. It's from BioWare. They already have a huge following of loyal fans (much like Blizzard does) and a reputation for making excellent games. That fact that BioWare is making it is going to get people hyped.

3. What we've seen so far looks really good. The game might not be this massively revolutionary game that some people where hoping it would be, but it still looks amazing. For the first time ever I'm excited about the story of an MMO, questing, and rolling an alt.

I think most of the hate comes from jaded MMO players who've played ever crappy MMO to ever be released and have seen it all. BioWare is smartly in my opinion marking this towards WoW players by making it familiar enough for them to jump right into the game and feel at home, and people who don't play MMOs because they enjoy a good story and aren't interested in grinding their way though 80 levels of the same 5 or 10 quest. They've got too much money in this to risk breaking the mold of success too much, but to me that doesn't mean the game isn't going to be excellent.

Posted: Jun 28th 2010 4:30PM Kinau said

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Meh, Im tired of all the bitching about BioWare not innovating. Yes they are, in their own right and only on the parts of the game that they feel comfortable with which means better overall quality. Just becasue not every single feature of the game is unique, doesnt mean they are not innovative. Lets just hope they pull it off.

PS theres an article on mmosite covering this - http://news.mmosite.com/content/2010-06-25/the_degree_of_innovation_in_star_wars_the_old_republic,1.shtml

Posted: Jun 28th 2010 4:29PM Deadalon said

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There is one thing that makes me very exited about this title. Spaceships !! If done properly it will be an awsome feature to have. The ship can be the centerpoint of everything you do. It works as a housing feature - you can design some of it yourself and get things to put into it from content. Then ofc - it also works as a storage space for items stuff you have gathered. And... you can move this with you wherever you go ! Thats the first time in the history of MMOs where a storage and housing feature can work 100% correctly. But ofc - it has to be done right.

Posted: Jun 28th 2010 4:32PM Ingrod said

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Jedi Consular - CC and support DPS class
Jedi Knight - melee tank and DPS class
Smuggler - CC and support DPS class
Trooper - ranged DPS and tank class

Smuggler and Consular are classes with confirmed healing cappacities.

Where is the healer dedicated class?

Also the game will have confirmed by hands on instanced areas without
load screems called phases where the enviroment changue due to player
actions and continues changued when he/she returns to that area.
These dont are the big open world zones, instead are small areas where the class storylines have place. This system not divide people in different world instances how in WoW phasing, the groups grouping in the open world and then enter in the class instance (remember, no load screems) if they wants helps a different class friend or visit that area.

What MMO have that?

And the companions have their own IA and scripted dialogues.

Repeat: not all MMOs must be sandbox games to have some new things or be good MMOs. Bioware gives guided experiences with controled freedon in all his games, SWTOR is not to be different.

Posted: Jun 28th 2010 4:36PM Ingrod said

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(Answer to Draccan, sry)
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Posted: Jun 28th 2010 4:49PM brooksguthrie said

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It's true, thus far the following behind the game has survived on a heavy dosage of hype. The marketing and community teams have done a truly remarkable job at opening the siphon just enough...just a drop at a time...to stretch the news out as far as possible. The game has one of the largest pre-launch forum and fansite communities in recent history, and that comes with its own set of faults, which show up even in the comments here.

The problem with having such a rabid community that demands innovation is that any release of game features or mechanics is never good enough out of the gate. Remember the huge lighstaber hilts from two years ago? Those are gone now. Why? Those first shots were simply to show off that, indeed, there are lightsabers in the game and as part of the development process, their look will be refined when the focus changes. Calls for diverse class options have been met with Advanced Classes, the Trinity system has indeed been modified, and housing and ships have been met with a player ship system. All of these have only recently been announced, and both will be further explained and added to as launch nears.

The point of columns like this and sites like DarthHater, TOROCast, and Mos Eisley Radio (thanks for the link-love, btw), is to make at least semi-educated guesses on what the little news that is released will mean 2-4 months from now, and at launch. They're a place for the fanboys to gather their collective thoughts and discuss in a place far, far away from the thousands of voices on the forums suddenly crying in terror that X feature isn't going to be implemented in Y manner.....and in the grand scheme of MMO design, it probably isn't that big of a deal because it's either A) going to change before launch B) going to be introduced in a patch or C) not going to matter at all because it's Star Wars, it's Bioware, and you're probably going to have a damn good time.

Posted: Jun 28th 2010 4:52PM (Unverified) said

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Let me enlighten you, people.

About healing:
TOR is not limited to Holy Trinity combat, the devs have been explicit on this more than once, they've said you don't even need a healer.
If four players group enter an instance and none of them was a healer they could each get out a companion that could heal which would in effect give 4 healers to see you through an instance (E3 Darth Hater in DE Video June 2010)

In another interview with a Bioware representative Daniel Erickson said that there will be enough to do even when you ignore the storylines, and that the planets will be hugely enormous and exploration is rewarded/encouraged.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dqu-_GNyWMk (40s - 1m50: about offtrack activities, 2m15-2m40 about the massiveness of worldsizes)

Posted: Jun 28th 2010 6:02PM Larry Everett said

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I would like to point out a couple of things that I said in the article which may have been misunderstood.

I do know why there is so much hype, I explain it a couple of different way within the article. The idea behind the article is not: Why do we have so much hype? But rather it's about: How do we filter this hype so we don't get burned out on this game before it is released. I'm assuming you've read it before commenting, so you'd see that I gave examples on how to do that. One of the biggest for me, and the reason why, no matter the short-comings, I will still play this game: I am expecting a Bioware game. I'm not expecting WoW with lightsabers. I'm not expecting EVE the ground game. The closest to what I'm expecting is a PG version of Mass Effect using the HeroEngine and lightsabers, with some multiplayer stuff on the side. Any more than that for my is icing.

The second thing: I did not mention the class system in this article. Although I do have quite a bit of information about the way the classes are set up, I do not believe there is enough information out there to do any sort of in depth speculation regarding the classes. The trinity is confirmed, but only in the sense that in a group there will be someone who handles DPS, someone who handles healing, and someone who handles tanking. With the game demos we did see that a Consular -could- do healing, a Trooper -could- do tanking, and a Knight -could- do DPS, but I don't think the classes are limited in that fashion.

Anyway, that's my thoughts -- please, continue.

Posted: Jun 28th 2010 6:32PM Xtofer said

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Even if the game is WoW with lightsabers, it still could be a very good and engaging experience. I think people are jumping to conclusions in that respect though. We won't truly know what the game will be until it comes out, though it is fun to speculate.

However, to take great offense over how much hype there is and what they perceive the game is going to be, which is what some of the people in these comments are doing, is kind of ridiculous.
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