| Mail |
You might also like: WoW Insider, Joystiq, and more

Reader Comments (32)

Posted: Jun 28th 2010 6:57AM Deadalon said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I can agree with you on alot of what you said. Good PVE content is expensive to create. But PVE content that is not balanced and buggy and always built on exactly the same formula - is not good PVE content. This is where most of the MMORPGs fail. They create the content - but it lacks the quality. WOW is probably the only game so far that has managed to create content that is up to acceptable pve standard. Most other games end up with players cheating their way through it cause its so buggy. The famous "can't reach me" trick is used alot and many MMO games dont have a system to counter it. I played AOC to 80 and came upon alot of groups that used this tactic - cause it was the easiest way. WOW has built in mecanic that resets the mob as soon as he can't reach you to fight - thus - you have to actually fight the mob.

AI limitations are not how MMos should be manipulated. And no game that is manipulated in this way can be called a good PVE game.

The last part in your post is just not true. Majority of gamers are PVE crowd that wants to mingle with others in civilised manner - make new friends and work together. But this requires a GOOD PVE game. Alot of developers think like you and consider that PVP is player driven content... when it really is not. Killing ppl is antisocial. In the end there will be a winner - and there will be a looser. 50% looser all the time means that half the entire game population is loosing - and loosing is not fun... So... PVP creates loosers that then stop playing leaving the winners fighting new group of players and 50% of those will become loosers that then leave to.

You can try to put up any sort of system into these PVP games to make everbody a winner - even when they are dying all the time. Those systems are usually manipulated in some way. WOW tried it in battlegrounds and it left alot of ppl afking - destroying the enjoyment for others. In a free for all world PVP ... you simply can not create any of these systems... And the results ... are very limited group of players that feed on the loosers that then quit the game after few weeks - and never subing again.

A good new PVE title will really good PVE systems and strong AI will be 10 times more populare than a exclusive PVP title. The giants of every MMORPG era have always been PVE titles - growing based on the PVE content rather than the PVP content.

There are games out there trying to grow on PVP content alone... Look at WAR for example.. they are trying ... but they are loosing more players each and every day... THey are ONLY focusing on PVP content - and now there are almost two years since new PVE content was added.

You just can't maintain healthy populations of gamers with PVP content alone. Its not fun - its antisocial - and it gets boring over time. The 50% rule of loosers and winners can't be beaten in this regard. It will always end in failure over longer period.
Reply

Posted: Jun 27th 2010 8:40PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Edit: typo in there, I meant to say that a New MMO that has only PvE content isn't going to fair much better in today's society against the established 5+ year old MMOs with tons of PvE content versus a New game that focuses only on PvP content.

I think one of the commenters here exclaimed that AoC could never make PvE content fast enough for the playerbase, which is kind of my point.

Posted: Jun 28th 2010 12:52AM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
There's only one honest way of looking at the PvE vs PvP dimensions: resources.

It is possible for a company to balance both, but why would they do that if they can achieve a better cost/benefit ratio by ignoring one for the other? And typically, most North American players prefer PvE.

Unfortunately, this leaves PvP players out in the cold, and those of us (like myself) who love both PvE and PvP are out in the blizzard.

Posted: Jun 28th 2010 3:06AM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
The problem is that I personally find pvp far more interesting.
I am not going to say anything bad about pve guys... there are quite a good bunch of them... but what you wrote there shows that the pve oriented gamer is somebody who clearly prefers to have time over ability rewarded. This is the mirror of our society where everybody wants to feel special and mediocrity is rewarded!!!
I personally find no pleasure in pve at all: this is for a simple reason.... in pve u always win!!! Most of the pve encounter are intended to be won!!! Everything is a matter of gear and few easy steps where a group of monkeys repeats over and over the same actions. I was playing a lot of pve in wow... and I always found it utterly annoying (from the damn heroic instances the hardest part of BT).
So why not playing COD as u say :P ??? Well, there are 2 things I find attractive in mmorpgs:

1) The persistent world. Pvp in a living environment is more challenging as it comes with many interesting outcomes
2) The idea of progression. The truth is COD and CS are real fun. What I do miss is the feeling that I have some accomplishment.Winning a map, besting a scenario being a good player does not change anything :(

That said, I hate games where gear count more than skill and I feel pity for people who feed their small ego with the illusion of being good :(.

Pvp in Aoc is dead, that's why I abandoned that game forever. Howevr, there are plenty of good games out there which do not share the same fate.

Posted: Jun 28th 2010 7:57AM xBludx said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
At the time I played this game from June to November 09, I had believed that this would be a semi-skill based pvp game compared to WoW, which is an equipment-based game. When equipment in WoW is equal, then skill can be a factor.

In AoC, when I hit 80, my guild mates starting telling me about the mats I needed to gather to make my epics so I could start raiding to get better gear. That was the last day I played. That was WoW all over again.

If you want pvp and skill-based combat, I recommend a sandbox game or something like Quake 3.

Posted: Jun 28th 2010 10:28AM Tom in VA said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Jef, I greatly enjoy reading your columns -- even though I care very little about AoC and even less (if it's even possible) about PvP.

This line made me LOL:

"PvP guys, honestly, I love you all to death because you're so cute when you cry about MMOs in general and AoC in particular.. I just want to run over there, wrap you in a big carebear hug and pinch your little rosy-red QQing cheeks."

My reaction to these folks is more Dirty Harry than Barney the Purple Dinosaur, but oh well. We each have to cope in our own way.

I also almost choked on my Cheerios laughing at your response to Deadalon above about your being paid off by the game devs. Would you mind sharing a few of those eleventy billion dollars with an appreciative reader? :-)

Posted: Jun 28th 2010 10:55AM Jef Reahard said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
You're too kind sir, thanks for reading (and your check is in the mail).
Reply

Posted: Jun 29th 2010 5:03AM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I would love to get into a good guild that does some RP in this game. Can't anyone point me the right direction?

Posted: Jun 29th 2010 10:20PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I just came back to AoC and am looking for a solid guild with some roleplaying qualities. So my question is does massively have one?

Posted: Jun 29th 2010 5:06AM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
And if there is one what server is it on so I can transfer my character.

Posted: Jun 29th 2010 10:18PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I'm also wondering what people think of the HoX?

Posted: Jul 25th 2010 7:05PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
lol at all these retards that dont know any thing about aoc. Aoc was advertised and released as a hard core in ur face skill based pvp mmorpg and the pvp community in aoc was way way way bigger then the pve community. the vocal pve minority couldnt handle the fast paste skill based combat so they started complaining to funcom to turn it into a bad wow clone and thats what happend when they released 1.05. after 1.05 was released the majority of the population left the game.

Featured Stories

WRUP: Kingdoms of Amalur was pretty cool edition

Posted on May 26th 2012 10:00AM

Betawatch: May 19 - 25, 2012

Posted on May 25th 2012 8:00PM

Coming soon
Engadget

Engadget

Joystiq

Joystiq

WoW Insider

WoW

TUAW

TUAW