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Reader Comments (46)

Posted: Jun 27th 2010 8:47PM (Unverified) said

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Thank you for making want to play the game even less.

Posted: Jun 27th 2010 8:56PM (Unverified) said

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eve is awesome even without pvp or corporations
eve has the best market from any mmos

Posted: Jun 29th 2010 6:53AM (Unverified) said

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Without PvP or corporations that market would not work, or even exist.
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Posted: Jun 27th 2010 9:02PM (Unverified) said

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EVE's vicious circle, for me, was that I didn't want to go chasing for a corporation to join until I was sure I liked the game enough to stick around. But I probably needed to join a corporation in order to _start_ to like the game enough to stick around.

Posted: Jun 27th 2010 9:03PM Sean D said

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I disagree with the premise. The beginning of any game is the most enjoyable. Once I hit max level with a character, I usually create alts to play and find that I enjoy the lower levels much more than the higher ones. It's only when I feel required to join a guild or a corporation, or fight my way through a certain instance to obtain specific equipment, or raise my crafting skill to a certain level that I begin to lose interest. Once you're 80 in WoW (or any other similarly structured game) and have completed the majority of the quests there's nothing left to do that is original. I don't care for the repetetive aspect of finding raids or pugs to conquer instances which all follow the same general pattern of mob fights/boss fight/mob fights/boss fight until the last boss is beaten and the rewards are collected. Although strategies for fighting individual bosses change, the process for learning each fight alone is repetitive and monotonous and once you learn the optimum pattern it's always used.

EVE is a different beast to some degree. Joining a corporation is still essentially required to get the most out of the game, but it's because the game isn't structured or controlled to such an extent that every encounter is balanced that the game remains fun from beginning to end.

@DrewIW: I disagree. Nothing requires you to train learning skills and some people don't. Granted, if you want to train skills faster then you should, but you don't have to. Again, like Mandrill said, EVE is about choice. Once you take away learning skills you take away choice. That's a bad move IMO.

Posted: Jun 27th 2010 9:52PM Dblade said

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Learning skills have nothing to do with choice. Learning skills are pure timesink so you can progress in the game. Without the attribute boosts you learn incredibly slowly once you start capping needed level 5 skills to fly ships like battleships and tech 2 ships.

They do not impact gameplay at all becides shortening skill training times. You take them out, nothing is harmed.

Drew is right on that.
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Posted: Jun 28th 2010 12:10AM Sean D said

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Learn incredibly slowly compared to what? The time it would take to train level 5 skills w/o having learning skills trained? So are you arguing for shortening the training time for all skills, or just the removal of learning skills? My point is that you're comparing training times without learning skills against training times with learning skills under the assumption that everyone trains them to 5, which I know isn't true (although anyone intending to play the game for a long time would be smart to do so). Considering that not everyone trains learning skills, they then do impact game-play in ways other than shortening training times when one player has chosen to train them and another hasn't, which gives the player who has trained the skills an advantage over the player who hasn't went those two players come together and battle each other (or compete for acceptance into a corp that has a minimum SP requirement, etc). EVE is a game designed to be played for the long term.

If you remove learning skills, you are taking away the choice of every player to train them (or not), so they do have something to do with choice. You could argue that it would level the playing field a bit more I suppose, but I'm not sure that's a good thing.

I agree that they area time sink, but not that they're a "pure time sink". If there were no cost to them there would be no value either and they do have value. Maybe that value should be increased. I don't know. You can progress in the game without them. It is possible.

Just for the sake of the discussion, what would you do for those people who have already trained the skills? Reimburse the SPs?

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Posted: Jun 28th 2010 12:17AM DrewIW said

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"Be competitive or deliberately gimp myself" isn't really a choice. Certainly not in the sense that EVE generally presents them. From a PR and gameplay perspective, telling new players to spend 3 weeks training skills with no immediate benefit is suicide.

As for people who already have the skills? Well, CCP just announced that they're releasing a system that allows players to redeem and assign skillpoints. It seems like such a system would be perfectly suited for a removal and refunding of learning skills.
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Posted: Jun 28th 2010 11:13AM Dblade said

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I'd say reimburse the SP spent on them, and just remove them altogether, boosting everyone's attributes to the max. That would help newbies get into the ships corps need faster and give a boost to midtier players and vets as well.

It's not really a choice. I never have seen anyone say you don't need to level learning skills in the same sense you don't need to level a cov ops frigate or crosstrain to another racial cruiser. It's when you level them.

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Posted: Jun 27th 2010 9:22PM Darkdust said

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The tutorial could push players a little more towards PVP, absolutely. They've made some progress here, but a lot more remains.

As for those wanting arenas: your mistake is thinking that PVP begins when you undock. EVE players are PVPing all the time: lining up allies, gathering intel, etc.

Posted: Jun 27th 2010 9:38PM (Unverified) said

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YES!

Well said.
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Posted: Jun 28th 2010 12:27AM Pasha said

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Those (veterans?) who think about this game is about to make a good choice - new player cannot choose things/directions s/he don't know.

Article is correct: EVE is the only game (I played every A-rank game since UO) there I couldn't find myself entertained right from start. And "start" in this case means "many days spent in hamster wheel between station and ore". Now I'm going to give it a (re)try with $2 Steam offer - but somehow I'm sure 1 month is not enough to find neither a good corp nor good PvP.

Posted: Jun 28th 2010 5:52AM Brendan Drain said

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I highly reccomend joining one of the faction warfare militias. The NPC-run militia corp is a bit closer to a player-run corp, almost like a stepping stone between NPC corps and player-run PvP corps. The militia channel has gangs forming up a lot of the time and you can get by in gangs using cheap frigates while you learn the ropes. There are some player-run faction warfare corps that will take in total newbies and provide you with free disposable ships to PvP with. I used to run a corp like this and we had a massive stock of free fitted frigates and cruisers for members. Other corps in faction warfare run similar initiatives.
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Posted: Jun 28th 2010 8:49AM Damn Dirty Ape said

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Honest FW question.... can you mess up your standings by engaging FW too soon?

One of my worries when I was playing was that I'd find a corp that was a perfect match, only to find that they are based in faction A's space when I'm affiliated with faction B.

Which reminds me of another big Eve newbie issue... faction standings. The Eve faction system is archaic and horrendous. It is stupidly easy for a new player to shoot their faction standings in the foot by simply selecting the missions that were given to them.
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Posted: Jun 29th 2010 6:58AM (Unverified) said

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EVE University sounds like it might be for you. It works like a real University in that it gts you socialising with other players and can lead to other things. I know of a few corps that will only consider taking players on if they have had an EVE Uni education. No matter their skill points.
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Posted: Jun 28th 2010 2:21AM (Unverified) said

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Eve PVP:

Step 1: What does the enemy have
Step 2: Counter said force
Step 3: Troll on internets about how hard step 1 and 2 were
Step 4: Epeen growth


Basically it.

Posted: Jun 28th 2010 2:24AM (Unverified) said

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Please, don't try to over complicate clicking a bunch of buttons. This game isn't hard. Any mouth breather with the ability to read can be a productive player within this game world in hours.
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Posted: Jun 28th 2010 2:54AM (Unverified) said

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I think they could benefit from overhauling the NPC Corporations you start in to make players feel more comfortable at first.

Also finding a corp is TEDIOUS. Chat Channels being the best avenue? It feels like mIRC ala 1998 or something.

I've tried PvP. It's a waste of time without a close-knit group of buddies. I've joined large corps and even then had little to no co-operation from them.

Also if PvP was a more viable form of income, a lot more would be doing it.

Posted: Jun 28th 2010 3:55AM (Unverified) said

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CCP *want* you to leave NPC corps and join player-run corps for the very reasons mentioned in this article.

Finding a *good* corp to join is, however, not that simple. Sure, you can join the recruiting channels and trawl the interrnet for corp forums etc., but this all takes time - time that a new player may not be willing to invest as they really don't know what benefits being in a player-run corp brings.

CCP can't help with this as they can't be seen to be promoting individual corporations over any others (and I'm not sure what the reaction would be to such corporations...probably constant war-deccing!).

New players could do worse than joining a corp renowned for teaching it's members - corps such as Eve University, OUCH, Agony Unleashed and Noir Mercenary Corp.

If players want to jump into 'fair' PVP in high-sec space, one of the best to join is Red vs Blue: two corporations (Red Federation and Blue Republic) constantly at war with each other, complete with mutually-agreed rules of engagement.

Posted: Jun 28th 2010 6:24AM Boojum said

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Just a word out to the Altaholics out there...

As confirmed earlier up, you can use this steam offer with EVE's buddy programme, possibly worth noting though (as it hasn't been mentioned already) that you can use this for more than one of your EVE accounts.

Note: Steam will only let you buy one copy of the game per Steam account, workaround is to create a new Steam account using a backup email address (I'm fairly sure they don't like this but what they hey).

You don't need to install the game using the Steam app just check under your games list on the Steam app, select choose "EVE Online: Tyrannis" and look for the link to the product key on the right hand side of the game info page.

That key is all you need to upgrade your new trial account to the full version, once you have that then Steam be damned, just play off your normal install as per usual.

I had two EVE accounts with a month's game time on each.

Thanks to this ludicrous offer, for princely sum of three pounds I now have four EVE accounts with an extra 30 days on each of my main accounts and 51 days on each of my newly created accounts (you get to keep the 21 days from the trial as full game time).

As of this comment the Steam sale was good for another 7+ hours.


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