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Reader Comments (14)

Posted: Jun 26th 2010 4:23PM (Unverified) said

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A fix other than the stanceless stance is that a SW should have different sets of tactics set to each stance. It would bring the SW a lot closer to being the hybrid it was intended to be.

Posted: Jun 26th 2010 5:54PM (Unverified) said

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The stance changes never bothered me much, you just had to spend time making sure the skills were in the same hotbar spot for each stance, so that when you changed stance, some just seemed to disappear.

It was the damage output that always got me down, never seemed very effective on the battlefield.

I started an archmage and never looked back.

Posted: Jun 26th 2010 5:48PM (Unverified) said

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"Again, a squig herder player was number one, but his 40,000 damage put my measly 12,000 to shame"

a) What kind of classes are you trying to kill? If you are trying to kill tanks then you´re doing it wrong. ( Mythic wont tell you how obscenely tanks can mitigate your damage when you´re choosing your class).

b) Scenario damage numbers are a bad way to take a conclusion. Perhaps a damage per kill would help to understand SW efficiency.

Posted: Jun 27th 2010 12:12PM Joshua Przygocki said

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I always topped damage with my squigy, just have to use the ranged aoe squig and spam that one channeled spell that fires a ton of arrows over time.
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Posted: Jun 26th 2010 7:12PM Deadalon said

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Shadow warriors are one of many Order classes that obviously were second best compared to the Destro counterpart. Basicly Squig hearder is a combined power of white lion and shadow warrior... leaving both the order classes with obvious balancing issues. Shadow warrior was one of the class I desided to play cause I have pretty high ping so range is more forgiving than trying to run after another player with much less latency (meaning he is getting hits on me while Im out of range to get hits on him). In some respect ... the class is ok. The main problem for me is the lack of CC abilites that this class has. Its a very fragile class that even with the close range stance on - has very little or no chance of staying alive for more than few secs against the oponents. Most desto know that the order dps classes are very weak and easy to get to by just charging head first. That usuaslly takes out 3 of the 4 dps classes and leaves the healer with no room to heal before they drop dead.

But for my part... its way to late to talk about classes in WAR. The game is not just worth playing and the dev team behind future updates and content seems to be gone. So why bother when you see 10 other MMOs working on new content in their game... and then see WAR doing nothing at all to really improve the huge issues that the game has. But thats the point. The game simply has no chance of fixing half of the issues. Fixing shadow warrior would maybe happen in 2018. There are so many horrible other issues that need to be focused on before - and zero manpower to do it.

Posted: Jun 26th 2010 7:41PM Averice said

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When I did the 10 day trial awhile ago with WAR, I'm pretty sure it's at unlimited trial right now, I played basically every single class to test them all out and the only one I could stand coming back to was the Shadow Warrior. None of the other classes were remotely interesting imo, at Tier 1. The Shadow Warrior looked like a class that took actual thought, and that's what I desire in an MMO.

It was incredible easy to kite with a shadow warrior in T1, no one else can touch you unless you screw up royally. Sure running away instead of pounding at someone lowers your dmg output

Posted: Jun 26th 2010 9:22PM (Unverified) said

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I havnt played warhammer in about 4 months... but what you can describe I can relate to. I played a squig herder and a chosen well into T2 and the beginning of T3.

I never actully played a SW. but I too believe SH is much better. Stance dancing sounds like the nightmare that was warrior in early WOW... also, the pet for the sh is amazing, a separate and very much disposable entity that does a fair share of dps regardless of what the SH does. Not to mention that 2 out of the 3 pets are ranged attack pets, which means they can contribute to a battle well out of range of the meele AOE that is always being spammed, and as such have much improved survivability despite lower armor and hp values.

Posted: Jun 26th 2010 10:44PM (Unverified) said

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I wish I still played so 1) I was up to date on the SW and 2) so I could remember and articulately explain the problems I had with playing one, which were many.

Stance issues were always a big one, especially in relation to the SH and marauder. Bugged tactics were a big problem too (Enchanted Arrows not working, Charge Forth and some other short range tactic bugging out when used together). The utter uselessness of some of our skills (Glass Arrow, Lileath's Arrow and that other one that has a straightforward AOE similar to Lileath's Arrow, among others) was annoying.

AFAIK, SW has only ever gotten some meager amount of love twice: when the devs changed it so that ballistics gear converts to strength (although before I think it was 1:1, but in the article you say it's 2:1...nerfed?), and with the change to make Eagle Eye one second. Of course, they also nerfed Spiral-Fletched Arrows by 25%, which is really the only way a SW could've kept up with any other ranged class, so yeah, awesome.

I remember seeing a video one time, about 3-6 months after the release of WAR, one of the devs whom I remember as being the number 3 guy behind Paul Barnett and "what's-his-name" was asked which class did he feel needed the most help at the time. His response was, "The Shadow Warrior could use some love." 18 months into the game, barely anything. The fact alone that I actually remember this video and clinging on to that small, but ultimately untrue, ray of hope should tell you how much SW's need help in comparison to their counterpart classes.

Posted: Jun 26th 2010 10:45PM (Unverified) said

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Thanks for the article and bring some attention to it, by the way.
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Posted: Jun 27th 2010 2:29AM NeverDeath said

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Oh yes this is brilliant. WTS more class work that favors Order whose classes are already largely superior to their Destruction "Mirrors". Great idea.

Every time I see that Mythic has made another decision (aside of their taking over GOA's utter failure of an operation), it's an immediate head-desk scenario.

Posted: Jun 27th 2010 9:40PM (Unverified) said

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I hope you're not trying to say that Shadow Warriors are "largely superior" to Squig Herders. If so, someone cue the Price is Right "losing horn".

@the author- I played a SW to his RR60's and found that throughout the lower tiers I was effective, but once you hit tier 4, you'll need to hit rank 40 with somewhat decent RR to compete. (Try and grab the Land of the Dead vessel weapon either from the tombs or the vendor one, the stats you can get on those will help ALOT). Though, even in early tier 4, you can burst pretty much any high RR light-medium armored targets down with your M2 (Unshakeable Focus). I think this class can bring some nice utility to a group with Hunter's Fervor, a great incoming heal debuff, and Leading Shots tactic. The only issue I had with mine wasn't the damage/dps (which is actually really good as long as you have different tactic sets for different play) but like another poster said, the arrow flight. I think even lowering the arc and making all of our abilities the same flight-time as Broadhead, Spiral-Fletched, and Eye Shot for instance, would help quite a bit.

As far as the "stanceless" problem is concerned, I found that taking the stance ability and putting it on the hotbar that switches as you change stances helps. Example: Say you're in Scout stance, put ONLY Skirmish and Assault on your hotbar that changes. When you change to Assault from that, have Scout in the same spot where Assault was, keep Skirmish the same, ect. That way, you only need to have 2 hotkeys for your stances and not 3. It also makes it to where you should never be stanceless again. Try it out, see if it works for you.
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Posted: Jun 27th 2010 2:14PM NeverDeath said

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Shadow warriors do need some work; Most of the classes in the game do in one form or another, and they are certainly not as good as Squig Herders - though I can recall a time when Squig Herders were the worst class in the game.

But when you look at the class spread as a whole, if you have any form of experience whatsoever, you will come to the following conclusions:

Ironbreaker>Blackguard
Engineer>Magus
Bright Wizard>Sorceress
Witch Hunter>Witch Elf
Swordmaster>Black Orc
Runepriest>Zealot
Slayer=Choppa (used to be Slayer>Choppa)
Marauder>White Lion (by a very small margin, due largely to pet control issues)
Chosen>KoTBS (just barely, since ravage was fixed)
Squig Herder>Shadow Warrior (by the same margin as WH>WE)
WP>DoK (it's a team game, and WP have far better supportive skills)
Archmage=Goblin Shaman (Better healing vs better damage, balances out)

As you can see by this accurate workup, Order has more powerful mirrors on the whole than Destruction does. There have been a number of changes since launch that have led to this truth, but it has been in this sad state for many months now, and has driven countless Destruction players to quit or roll Order; I've known a LOT of them myself, and the population shifts of the few remaining servers are undeniable. Order sits on their comfy couch and often will say "What's the matter, you don't enjoy a challenge?". We enjoy a challenge just fine. We just don't enjoy playing with a severe handicap that is only worsened with every patch, confirming that Mythic still doesn't know what the hell is going on in its own game.

I love Warhammer. The lore and the world are rich and interesting, and the dark feel of it all is somewhat well portrayed in the game-world - but not well enough to make up for all the huge glitches that are still around this far from launch (teleporting mobs, animation FPS lowering when outside a certain distance and plenty more), Mythic's inability to listen to its player base in a timely fashion (look how long it took them to get around to Shadow Warriors, nevermind the other broken classes that remain - barely - without hope).

All they ever did from day one was talk about their demographics and the measures they have in place to weigh the truth of what people are saying against their statistical and analytical data. Yet for all of that supposed capability, look at how many times they've dropped the ball or ignored its existence completely. All out of patience for this game, hoping the WH40K MMO will succeed where WAR didn't.


Posted: Jun 27th 2010 2:40PM (Unverified) said

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The Shadow Warrior mechanic mirror is not the SH/and it's pet.. the SHadow Warrior mechanic mirror in the marauder. The White Lions mechanic mirror in the SH.

However, all 4 of those classes are all mirrors of each other as a pack. So you really can't just compare SH and SW because they both use bow and arrows.

Posted: Jun 28th 2010 1:21PM ShadowWar said

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Two corrections:

1) Assault stance gives a 1:1 conversion of BS to STR from items
2) Stances are NOT on the GCD for Shadow Warriros (Marauder's stances are, and that should be fixed).

Other than those techincal details, you're fairly accurate on your understanding of the career as a whole. However, the early tiers are the ones that you can really shine. Those are the levels where the power curve supports the SW as melee careers lack the tools to get passed your CC (which is nearly universally single target).

There are a few reasons the SW languishes in the power scale it currently does. The blanket AoE nerf hit every tree, no matter your spec, you got hurt. The consolidation of immunities hurt a class that has almost every immunity on single target, and was meant to use them in conjunction to make up for their extremely lower damage. The ability to go stanceless, the Marauder career has a "release" button, the same should be on the SW. And last, and probably most important, the melee range compensation.

The single biggest problem for the career, the archetype and in the game (outside of lack of new content), is this melee range compensation. The career, in Tier 4 is pushed into close range for it's "kiting" specialization, so close as to be melee (45'). The only truely viable mastery is the scout tree, where you can go for the one-minute wonder festerbomb, or the AP-draining Eagle Eye spam.

The class needs a lot of help.

@Testpig:

You're right, in a way. The bonuses of the stances are meant to be a mirror to those of the squig. Splitting functional/mechanical mirrors (even within archtype) has been a design nightmare for this game from the start.

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