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Reader Comments (30)

Posted: Jun 21st 2010 4:16PM (Unverified) said

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In a sense I trust Bioware. I am sure that they will create some sort of "omg great" storyline, but thats not the problem with TOR.


The problem is with them jumping the gun into mmo market. Let's face it, they don't have any experience in that field. They will most likely copy whatever is known best(that being WoW) and add their "omg story" into it. Thats all.

But they are doing it by sacrifficing KOTOR franchise.


They could have spent a year more gathering info for TOR and finally releasing KOTOR III, bu their decided to rush everything forward, dropping III part, spitting fans in face by making derogatory statements to the fans(with an intent to belitle the franchise).

Then they decided to make TOR story in such a way that makes previous two games completely pointless ("ha ha those characters you cared and wanted to know what happened? Well, they died, here go grind in this game").

Most of franchise fans expected "true sith" to be some sort of badasses, who look and feel unique and DIFFERENT from traditional, washed up "present day" Sith we have seen in the first two parts. Fans expected something new, frightening, something more in style with how Marka Ragnos was portrayed in Jedi Academy.

Fans expected seeing Exile and Revan stop the threat. What did the fans get instead? A storyline set on intent to belittle two best characters of star wars game franchise. A storyline where "true sith" is nothing more than just yet another name for "sith" wielding the same lightsabers and playing Malak-cosplay.

Suddenly everything we lived and experienced in two most awesome bioware games did not matter anymore. Suddenly the fantastic universe did not matter. Suddenly some random Jedi player named "XxxEdwardxxX" will be able to do something that EVEN Revan and Exile could not - organize a raid against "the true sith lord" and win~


TOR so far lacks the emotion, the atmosphere and feels like a half-assed attempt to milk more money from franchise. Instead of giving us the conclusion to KOTOR storyline, they are jumping the gun and trashing away KOTOR III in favor of this game.


From all the videos TOR does NOT feel like bioware. It feels as if some company took KOTOR lore and decided to create a fan-game on it.

Hopefully Bioware will turn out ok, TOR will actually live up to all the hype(i doubt this will happen) and Bioware will still have a decent share of customers even after all their hard work of alienating and destroying their KOTOR fanbase...

Posted: Jun 21st 2010 4:47PM Samael said

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I have all the faith in BioWare. They have not let me down even once.

Yes people want a true sequel to KoTOR, but to say that they have jumped the gun on going the MMO route is a little dishonest.

You look at WoW and say that it is the best right now, or rather known to be the best right now. You say that BioWare has no previous experience in MMOs. I am sorry but the company behind that best game, had no prior MMO experience before making said game. They were almost in the shoes of BioWare. They were a company that made awesome games and turned to a new genre and succeeded. I believe BioWare is going to do the same.

Your whole post reads really like a rant on BioWare hurt you by not going the KoTOR III route. I am sorry you were hurt, and that is all I have to say.
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Posted: Jun 21st 2010 5:10PM (Unverified) said

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I know how you feel about not getting the ending to the KOTOR series, but come on guy. Attempting to e-rage with terrible grammar is not the way to do it.

Just a little hint of gaming history; WoW did not, repeat did not bring anything revolutionary to the table. The team at Blizzard did a great job at making a highly repetitive, long term MMO. Yes some companies have attempted to shape their games after WoW's gameplay, and failed. While some companies *cough* SOE *cough* changed a game to try to make their game like WoW. That and I'm pretty sure that one of the interviews mentioned above said something about not having pointless grinds.

Oh and to be fair, Bioware only made one (yes, one) KOTOR game. The Sith Lords was developed by Obsidian. It was short, and not as well developed as KOTOR I. So no Bioware isn't attempting to "rake in the cash". Now if you would have said, "SOE is finally releasing the new *** expansion". That would be someone attempting to get that last little bit of cash out of a franchise. Such as what they are going to do with CWA.

Marka Ragnos, yes he is a Sith. Meaning he is of the Sith species, and uses the dark side of the Force. So does that mean that the only characters in the Star Wars universe must all look like Marka Ragnos? No, no it doesn't. Then the likes of say, Darth Revan, would have never existed as a human, and the story would have been predictable (the first time thru).

Ugh. I would really like to see Bioware releasing an update about naming characters. I hate seeing names like ____LuKe___SkYwAlKeR___. How do you even pronounce that? Are the underscores silent? It really irks me that people do that and say, "How come you don't wanna RP with me?"

And who says that the Republic side will even be going up against the Sith Emperor? That's just buck-shot logic there pal. It's like saying that since a new MMO is coming out that it will be just like WoW. But they aren't, they all share the same mechanic as Everquest, or one of the first Rogue. Come on get off the $25 sparkly Twilight mount, and get into something that will get the brain working through multiple choices and a huge story.

No-one is saying you have to play the game. If you don't like it don't buy it. I know I will since I'm a huge fan of Star Wars and Bioware. I think the worst thing that would happen would be for Bioware to see the first post and go " My lord Unknown doesn't like our ideas. Let's stop the production of TOR and work on KOTOR III".

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Posted: Jun 22nd 2010 4:18AM Unverfied B said

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All those walls of text... completely ignoring the fact that KotOR 3 was never developed by bioware before it was canceled, just like 2 wasn't developed by them either.

If you want to see that story finished - flame lucas arts, not bioware.
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Posted: Jun 21st 2010 4:20PM Greyjoy said

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But Blizzard had no experience in the MMO market....and well we know what happened there

At the end of the day Bioware are one of the great games makers of our time, if you are old enough you will remember the great games developer Black Isle Studios and Westwood Studios

Bioware is essentially up there with the greats and I have NO doubt this game will be a gem in the MMO history timeline

Posted: Jun 21st 2010 4:34PM (Unverified) said

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Thats what I fear.


Blizzard took Warcraft, cartoonified it even further and turned it into cardboard soulless mmorpg that "works". After that, no game from blizzard was ever the same, as blizzard continued to focus on "formula that works" and keeps chugging out expansions for their "blockbuster mmorpg"...


the thing is that blizzard was never strong on story. bioware is. seeing something so great as KOTOR getting the treatment blizzard gave warcraft is...saddening.
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Posted: Jun 21st 2010 4:34PM (Unverified) said

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The more I hear about this game, the more it sounds like they took what Blizzard did with WoW starting in Burning Crusade, slapped the Star Wars and KOTOR name on it. I used to be very optimistic of what Bioware was capable of with an MMO, now after E3 I am very skeptic, if it turns out to be another mindless children's game, I and a few people I know ,wont even bother with it.

Posted: Jun 21st 2010 4:36PM Wisdomandlore said

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I'm sure at this point TOR will be a fantastic, but unoriginal game. It will be this generation's WoW with a single-player storyline. It will be evolutionary, not revolutionary.

I'll probably land up playing TOR for the story and have some fun in its Star Wars themepark. A lot of my friends are going to play it. But I'll play Guild Wars 2 if I want innovation in an MMO.

Posted: Jun 21st 2010 4:40PM (Unverified) said

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Well, then what was the point of making it into mmorpg?


TOR is practically a retcon of KOTOR franchise, shugging away two entirely awesome games and their story for something that would work in mmorpg format.

Did bioware REALLY need to rash something that worked in favor of something that would maybe work as mmorpg?

I would have accepted this sacrifice(which was not needed in the first place as biwoare could have easily modified the tor story to make kotor I and II matter....) if TOR was something innovative.

As it stands now, its just another themepark stylized after wow. So , what was the point of even changing something what works? Fixing something that was not broken?
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Posted: Jun 21st 2010 4:52PM Wisdomandlore said

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What's the point of any MMO? To create a social space where players can interact, however that might be. In KOTOR, you cannot play a Sith and battle Jedi. You cannot roleplay with other people, or go on raids with a guild. Single-player games have their advantages, but there are some things you can only do in a MMO.
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Posted: Jun 21st 2010 4:46PM (Unverified) said

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"XxxEdwardxxX" is the new XxxSephirothxxX

Posted: Jun 21st 2010 4:52PM DevilSei said

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Unknown, Bioware only really made the first KOTOR game, Obsidian handled KOTOR 2, so your argument is already flawed there. Developers don't always like returning to a franchise, specially after another group was brought into the series.

Not every damn game needs to be revolutionary and innovative for the sake of being revolutionary and innovative. Just like we don't have to fix what isn't broken. I said this before, and they have said this before, they aren't trying to make something revolutionary, they are taking a formula that works, and are working it over to add in their personal touches.


And please, for the love of god, don't assume what the "fans" of KOTOR want, its just making an ass out of you.

Posted: Jun 21st 2010 4:52PM Samael said

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There is no need to re-invent the wheel. There was a need to gold plate it as Sera puts it. And BioWare can do that just fine. If innovation is making everything extremely hard so that only hardcores can really get into the game. Then I am sorry but there would too many people left out of an experience to service just a few.

Time will tell if this pays off for them. Their track record says that they will hit the spot really really well.

Posted: Jun 21st 2010 5:07PM Wisdomandlore said

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This kind of comment annoys me. The WoW-model MMO is a deeply flawed design. It can be fun, but the genre desperately needs some innovation.

Basically, it's not a wheel. It's slab of stone pulled through the dirt by sheer effort. Gold plating will not change the fact that it's a slab of stone. It desperately needs reinvention.
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Posted: Jun 21st 2010 5:18PM vicryixiv said

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I dont know about "deeply flawed". It's one of the most successful computer games of all time, both in #'s and revenue. its got a decent story, is generally very casual up until you max out your level and want to star raiding (and even that bar is being lowered) and has an art style that gives the world personality and flair instead of draging down machines or becoming dated. Wow looks great. Kotor 1 looks dated.

its only a little less fun these days as the game is getting pretty long in the tooth. How many other games are played for years and years?

I don't know why people are retroactively deciding that wow didnt completely change everything now that they've had 5 years and 2 expansions to burn out on. I've never had more fun playing a game as i have with wow. Someone wants to come along, put a star wars twist on it and oh-by-the-way, bioware is making it?

What's not to love??
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Posted: Jun 21st 2010 5:20PM Samael said

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I am sorry if you are annoyed by my comment.

I am just thankful that BioWare listens to people with my tastes, that believe it is a wheel and there is no need for re-invention. Just some polish and the BioWare flare for the dramatic and the subtle.

WoW-model is deeply flawed? for whom? enough people seem to enjoy it just fine, and the company seems to be swimming in money. So I ask who is it flawed for, and deeply at that? For you? I am sorry but you are not profitable, I am sure some company or the other will serve your niche.

There are true sandboxes out there you know. EvE is a wonderful example. It is an amazing game for those that can give it the time and nurturing it takes. But that is the only one I know.

Again I am sorry you are disappointed, I am sure someone will pick up on your niche, just not someone who has a lot of money riding on a game. That is what makes me happy.
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Posted: Jun 21st 2010 8:10PM Wisdomandlore said

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Lots of people enjoyed the original EQ. It was incredibly successful for its time. Yet WoW essentially turned the genre on its head and "reinvented" the wheel when it emphasized quest-based gameplay and soloability over sandbox-style content and forced grouping. What if Blizzard had decided not to "reinvent the wheel" and listen to the EQ diehard who wanted things to stay the same?

I don't understand the mindset of, "Give me WoW, but with [Insert IP] wrapper." And I certainly don't understand the concept of "it's popular so it must be good." By this logic, Twilight must be the height of the literary experience, and Justin Bieber the greatest singer in the world.
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Posted: Jun 21st 2010 4:58PM vicryixiv said

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Super excited about the ship announcements, even though im dying for some new space combat, ala JTL; hell even just rogue squadron style would be awesome

I think turret combat is a lock, as that's very kotor and very star wars (think escape from death star in ANH).

some kind of blockade run "level" like the old Rebel assault games could be cool too.

Lego star wars: complete saga had some pretty good "space" combat as well. Something like that would be acceptable.

just give us something :(

Posted: Jun 21st 2010 5:03PM Larry Everett said

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Although I don't think the turret thing is a complete lock, I do hope for it. It would be very KOTOR/Star Wars!
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Posted: Jun 21st 2010 5:23PM Samael said

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I think they will do an expansion that is solely based on space combat, introducing a Pilot class or something, or make it a profession that you have to learn. It is Star Wars, they have to have space battles.

Man this game cannot get out fast enough.
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