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Reader Comments (13)

Posted: Jun 17th 2010 4:36PM ployer said

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I definitely want to join the Massively SG!

Posted: Jun 17th 2010 4:47PM Aquaryon said

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Hey Patrick, great article but I do have a question, I have been considering coming back to CO. I really enjoyed my time but it just felt like something was off, do you think the game in its current state is better and worth paying for since 6-8 months ago? Thanks!

Posted: Jun 17th 2010 5:16PM Super Nerd said

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Speaking as a current player of CO, I think the game is much better than 6-8 months ago, and if that was the last time you played then there will probably be a lot of content you've seen. However, I play MMO's more hardcore than casual (I.E I play 10 hours a day), and for people who play A LOT there really isn't enough content to hold you over, even with the new Serpent Lantern adventure pack.
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Posted: Jun 17th 2010 5:24PM Patrick Mackey said

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Since six months ago? It's seriously night and day. I hated the post-launch, beta scene as much as anyone really. It's definitely worth checking out again, although there are certain core elements that may not appeal to some people. I think that if you were turned off by the bugs and such, that it's a lot better now, yes. If you thought that the game was too easy, I don't know. Very Hard is still pretty easy and a lot of maps aren't instanced, so, I'd have to say it depends on what you're looking for in an MMO. I still think it's pretty much the best game ever on the character customization front, both in terms of powers and costumes, but I can't really speak for everyone.
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Posted: Jun 17th 2010 5:55PM Aquaryon said

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Thanks guys! Great responses. I might just have to resub for a month to try it again, $15 for a kick ass character creation and awesome powers doesn't sound to bad. Plus I haven't seen too much of the later part of the game.

Thanks again!
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Posted: Jun 17th 2010 7:20PM (Unverified) said

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I'll be pokin around that channel / SG once it gets rolling :) still have a semi-bad case of alt-itis but I think I finally settled on something lol

Posted: Jun 17th 2010 9:02PM (Unverified) said

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Nice article. I will probably check out the SG when I have time to play.

Are you aware that Regen starts dropping off and healing weaker every tick while blocking? Seems like you implied the opposite at one point.

Also, while PFF is certainly not recommended for a tanking character, I don't think the power is awful. I have a character who uses it and has breezed up to level 25ish so far on his own. As long as you have a decent amount of End/Ego and pick up Field Surge for emergencies, I usually never drop below 75% health.

Posted: Jun 17th 2010 9:25PM Patrick Mackey said

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You're correct, Regen decays more rapidly while blocking. This is actually due to the inherent advantage that blocking gives Regen. If you're blocking, you're taking 1/3 of normal damage at the very least (1/4 or even less with better block skills). Regen decay can only drop it down to like 40% of its maximum strength (maximum is 2.5x the minimum rate) so even if you're decaying faster, blocking will put you ahead of standing and fighting, especially if you block intelligently and don't just block everything (minimizing decay). That's what I meant by player skill. I would have focused on it more but the column was getting absolutely gigantic as it is, haha.

PFF is not a tank passive, and you're right that it's not terribad. However, all of the other 4 defensive passives can be played by a primary tank, especially since the big buffs to LR. I don't think it's fair to hold PFF to a different, imaginary lower standard when it keeps you from playing in Sentinel or Avenger. I agree that it is totally usable in the regular game, but sadly a character with PFF is outright worse than say, a character with Defiance or Unstoppable in a team situation. The Defiance character could tank, or he can just use his energy advantage to shell out more offense, and the Unstoppable hero is probably in Brawler and is smashing faces like crazy.

Anyway, I totally agree with you. PFF is okay for regular leveling, but it doesn't compare to the others. If the benchmark is "usable" then maybe all the others should be nerfed (and probably nerf cosmics too, heh). I don't think that should be the case because I think the other four are really good and fun as they are. I'd like to see PFF rise to the same level that LR is at. Maybe not Defiance, Defiance is too good haha.
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Posted: Jun 18th 2010 1:44AM CitizenH said

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Coming from CoH, playing tank in CO left much to be desired. IMO, all melee characters in CO play like Scrappers, and not everyone is into that.

Surviving meant putting a paper weight on your block key and lashing out occasionally to hold aggro.

None of the defenses that fit my Might character really measured up for going toe to toe with the stuff tanks are supposed to, like Cosmics.

Not that was any reason to fight Cosmics. What is my lvl 40 going to do with l26 gear that dropps off of the Mega Destroid?

Invulnerability was anything but invulnerable and as much as I wated my character to have laser eye beams, the power simply sucked, expecially compared to Gigabolt.

I played the game from open beta, dropped it that November when the Nemesis Confrontation hit; wasn't impressed that I couldn't even stand up to my own nemesis there.

Gave the game a second chance to try Vibora Bay when it was on their test server. I wasn't impressed with the anemic population and couldn't find any reason to do the content; none of the drops were worth chasing and nothing you do matters.

Patrick tempts me to give the game a THIRD chance, but has any of what I talked about above *changed* since April? I'm afraid if I sign up again I'll just end up wandering around MC, occasionally soloing the Mayor's open mission and turning in the trash that drops from it to a store for resources that I have nothing to spend on. Just like the last two times.

Posted: Jun 18th 2010 4:03AM Patrick Mackey said

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Man, this is the most times I've commented on any of my articles.

1: All melee characters in CO still play like Scrappers. I'm not sure what "playing like a Tanker" is like, though. Melee is very active, but the exact style of doing so varies pretty widely. I find melee characters to be really lame and boring no matter what game I'm playing though. I've heard a ton from other people that it's very fun now.

2: Fighting cosmic bosses is actually pretty hard, and it requires a pretty specific build to both survive and hold aggro. Yes, blocking a lot is still important, but it's actually a lot harder because the devs nerfed Shockwave, which makes it ridiculously hard to keep aggro without spamming Crippling Challenge. I'm annoyed that the devs backed off from fixing the sniper rifle exploit that made everything I said above moot. Devs, if you're reading this: nerf sniper rifle to 100 feet again, the cosmic exploit is ridiculous

3: Cosmic bosses actually drop incredibly good stuff -- but mega-D doesn't. Kigs, Teliosaur, etc. drop amazing stuff. I know SGs that run them regularly.

4: As I've stated above, Invul is very good. It takes some build strategy to use, and self-healing powers are great. I have a STR/PRE invul tank that I used to run Serpent Lantern on test, and she can literally solo just about anything that doesn't have a ten minute enrage timer.

5: Nemcon challenge: hmm. I'd have to say that honestly, I've never found Nemcon hard, and I've never thought of my nemesis (I recently fought my sorcery nemesis on Very Hard) as particularly tough. I have to blame the awkwardness of CO's character creation system here. It's really tough to work with all the different variables and it's really easy to do END/REC gigabolt regen done. I suggest going over some of the articles I've made about builds, eg. loot and stuff. I can also answer a lot of build questions via email, but I can't make guesses as to where things went wrong without actually asking the specifics as to why.

Lastly: I like CO partly because I like making hot girls and staring at them (it's always awesome) but mainly because the system is very free and open, and because I am adept at maneuvering around in that system. I like messing around with all the little pieces of the CO puzzle and trying to fit them together. One of the best things about CO is that you can take something that doesn't work, respec out of it, and experiment with something that does. On top of that, you have the test server, so there's never any doubts about something that's good. Set the training room to 5-man spawn size and hard enemies and run as many permutations of your build through it as you can stand. It's rough, but it's the best way to really squeeze all the fat out of a build.

Ultimately I cannot say whether a game is fun or not. I like a lot of things that some people may not. For instance, I joked in the office that I would be the only one not playing SWTOR, because it feels just too much like a single-player game. Everyone else is hyped for TOR though. That's cool, but it's not my thing. I still love them all though :)
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Posted: Jun 18th 2010 1:02PM CitizenH said

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YMMV, but to me "playing like a Tanker" means the character can wade into any group of enemies, or right up to a giant city destroying robot, and start to wail away at them with little or no fear of faceplanting. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StoneWall You sacrifice offensive ability to do that, of course. But in CO, IMO they really had no answer for that kind of play style, unless you absolutely didn't care about concept and just wanted to grab powers from any old framework. Alternatively, you could stock up on a bunch of heals, but healing from damage isn't the same as being sturdy and not taking it in the first place.

I'm saddened to hear blocking is still the end all, be all. While I think it's a great idea as a mechanic for glass cannon types that don't have other defenses, I think they made it overly pervasive in the game.

Anways, thanks for the reply. I wanted to like CO, but it didn't, and still doesn't from the sounds of things, really have what I'm looking for in a super hero MMO. Good luck with the SG. I'll check it out if I ever change my mind.

:)
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Posted: Jun 18th 2010 1:51PM Patrick Mackey said

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At running the risk of flames here, I think that a "concept" does not mean "I must pick all my powers from one pool." I realize that there are concepts that are simply justifications for having powers, but I think that the entire point of CO is to pick from several different powersets. I have one character who is like, 90% mentalist. That's fine, but I also have my invul tank, who has powers from many different powersets (very very cherrypicked). Coming up with ideas why these powers can work together inspires creativity. Finding the (roleplaying) link that makes all of those disjointed power choices work can be interesting and exciting. And honestly, if you really want to pick powers, you shouldn't be hamstrung badly by RP restrictions.

Fun is always first; concept second. I will never make something I don't enjoy playing, at least on purpose. If I don't enjoy it, I will respec it until I do.

Lastly, on tanking, and this is purely opinion -- characters that can't die are kind of fun, but characters that can't die because you can play them well enough that things can't kill you are much more fun. I think that skill should always separate good players from bad players. Blocking well takes skill -- you can't just block all the time, you won't get aggro and you won't kill things. Ultimately, I think a lot of people (particularly CoX players) are not going to like this viewpoint, because they have it extremely easy. It is stupidly easy to cap defense in that game and be invulnerable, even without playing a "tank." I prefer games where positioning and tactical choices influence the battle, and the strategy isn't "get softcap defense, trivialize game."
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Posted: Jun 18th 2010 3:11PM CitizenH said

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I agree with you to a point about concept, but let me give you an example of what i was talking about. To increase my Invul tank's sturdiness, I could pick up one of the casting circles from Sorcery. That was a common thing being told to tanks back when I was playing CO. I can't justify something like that on the character, especially with the magical effects that come with the power. Something like Conviction or Resurgence were a lot less obtrusive and concept breaking than Mindful Reinforcement or Circle of Primal Dominion.

I don't think one should have to throw fun out the window to stay true to a concept, and I think CO could do a better job at allowing more flexibility for a wider range of character types within a framework.

I respect your opinions on tanking, but I don't agree with them. I don't see blocking as being especially skillful, because when you're facing a Cosmic foe or whatever, you're blocking constantly by default. Because in my experience, any of their attacks will wreck you. If that's that case, the devs should just make block a toggle and be done with it. Rather than a boxing match of strategic blocks and attacking when there's openings, to me it comes across more like cowering. Compared to my Tanker in CoH, who doesn't have to block. He can take in on the chin, shrug off the damage and he doesn't have to stop fighting. To get him to that point, I worked hard on his build. Capping your defense requires both figuring how to fit it into your build and grinding for the gear to do so. Few players actually have builds of that calibre. There's more of an investment in time and effort there than hitting a block button, so I disagree that it's 'stupidly easy'.

Some people like being the highly offensive glass cannon. Some people like being the balanced warrior. Some people like being the highly defensive stone wall. I think a good game allows you to be those and anywhere in between. IMO, CO doesn't allow much in the defensive end of the spectrum. YMMV.
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