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Reader Comments (48)

Posted: Jun 7th 2010 7:48PM (Unverified) said

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There are numerous relevant uses of SL for business and education -- most of my clients use it for training simulations, interactive educational quests, and immersive learning environments (such as for learning languages).

The perception of SL as a place just for virtual sex has been weakened as there have been increasing measurable real-world results of successful SL projects. More and more businesspeople and educators are aware that it's possible to use SL for a project with few or no distractions, given proper planning and structure.

Some marketing projects have done well in SL, but they were early or they were carefully adapted to the platform and the community it hosts. Most of the enterprise uses of SL today are not something you'll hear much about, because the companies benefitting from them don't want their competitors noticing their advantage. Educational institutions tend to be far more open about what they're doing in SL, but there you'll usually see brilliant plans whose execution is all too often limited by restrictive budgets. That puts us way ahead of where we were when I started out, though . . . when most educators had to pay for SL projects personally, out of their own pockets. They're getting funding today because those projects showed results.

Posted: Jun 7th 2010 11:37PM ed511df3 said

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It's ignorant, stupid comments such as this that make me embarassed to be an american. At least you've named yourself appropriately.

In case you missed it, LL is an American company. It has business offices all over the world, but it was started right here in the good ol' US of A. So by your standards, this is news that matters, which makes your comments even more ridiculous and misinformed.

Go back to your cheetos and mountain dew, and let the adults do the talking from now on.

Posted: Jun 8th 2010 3:24AM (Unverified) said

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It really amazes me sometimes when i read comments throughout the blogosphere about how horrible SL support is.

You do realize you're taking issue with.. what? a dozen people? handling the in-world and abuse claims of several dozens of thousands of people? Trust me, it's not an easy job. Not to mention, the amount of feedback, treatment and interaction that belittles and berates those who go to work everyday to do everything they can to help and support the community... it requires a rather tough hide to perform that job.

Sorry, i went off on a bit of a rant there. Getting back to the OP issue...

I believe the lay-offs and decline in expenditures is purely coincidental. Every year, logins, finances, etc... they all decrease during the summer. The best comparison for Max growth is probably to compare Q1 from year to year. (when it's cold and people aren't so prone to leaving their computers for social outdoorsy things)

Basically, from where i'm sitting... i see LL is still in a fairly lofty position amongst virtual worlds. A layoff of staff doesn't say "we're losing money" to me, it says "we're in he middle of re-organizing our strategies and output, this is part of that process".

Posted: Jun 8th 2010 4:16AM (Unverified) said

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"Every year, logins, finances, etc... they all decrease during the summer." -- actually, this seems to be a myth. I've got years of data and there aren't any statistically significant seasonal reductions.

Posted: Jun 8th 2010 4:25AM (Unverified) said

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Actually, there is a concurrency dip during the summer months. It's not a HUGE dip, but a noticeable one.

Basically, all i'm saying is that we need to compare Quarter to Quarter (annually), not month to month.
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Posted: Jun 8th 2010 4:30AM (Unverified) said

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Well, this year concurrency started dipping in January.
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Posted: Jun 8th 2010 5:05AM (Unverified) said

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The concurrency curve does appear different this year, and not in a good way. Of course, the raw numbers looked bad last year too, after trafficbots were banned. At that time, LL supplied analysis by session duration, showing that the reduction was limited to very long sessions, corresponding to trafficbots, and not to worry: unique logins were up.

What's interesting is that even now, more than a year after the traffic gaming policy, concurrency is down and unique logins continue to grow. More accounts are accessing SL daily, for shorter and shorter periods. We haven't gotten the concurrency-by-session-duration numbers for a long time, so presumably it's not just bots still exiting the scene; there's some other usage change afoot. (Facebookers logging in, messaging their Facebookish friends, and logging out? Who knows?)
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Posted: Jun 8th 2010 5:42AM (Unverified) said

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Most commenters aren't interested in analyzing and talking about facts - we're much more willing to "be amazed" and "rant" about "how horrible" something is, and myths are good enough for that.

I find this attitude amazingly horr...oh god, wait.
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Posted: Jun 8th 2010 5:12AM dudes said

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If it's related to the linden dollar and that their economy is shrinking then the cuts could be interpreted as austerity measures to aid survival. Art imitating life, how 1st life affects 2nd life and how one is reflected on the other.

Posted: Jun 8th 2010 5:17AM (Unverified) said

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The biggest problems with Linden Labs have been, and for the foreseeable future, will be..

They do not ever listen to their users (those that pay their wages), they have been given a wealth of information (amongst the drivel and whiners), but have always chosen to ignore it or do the exact opposite.

They have always given the feeling of instability, not just in their hardware/network, but in the very soul of the company. Like they could pull the plug and show you the finger. Your hard earnt investment could be gone without you even knowing it.

What company converts its website, forum and blog etc over to Flash, but doesn't support Flash inside its platform?

When 'M' joined, I had a short chat with him, he seemed very 'sterile' and was a corp through and through (or was it corpse?). I figured then, when Philip leaves, SL will go even colder than it had over the previous couple of years, since the Lindens lost their 'face' in-world. What we are seeing here is typical knee jerking management, which is a particular style for Linden Labs, it is one of the things they seem very good at, and maintain a high standard in.

I do not wish to see the demise of Second Life. It is NOT Linden Labs that makes SL what it is, it is everyone that logs in, creates, develops, touches other peoples hearts and souls. Those that enthral us, make us go WOW. Since I joined back in 2004, it has always read 'Your world, your imagination' over the door.

Posted: Jun 8th 2010 5:49AM (Unverified) said

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@AWM Mars

1. It's not that LL doesn't listen to users. It's that SL users are very different, with very different needs. LL simply can't listen to some users without pissing off some other users.

2. Actually, Flash IS supported inside SL platform. You should use SL some time if you talk about it.

3. A "short chat" with an executive who just got hired isn't meaningful at all and doesn't help understanding the company, especially 2 years later.

4. It's Linden Lab, not Linden Labs. It was "Linden Lab" in 2004 as well.
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Posted: Jun 8th 2010 7:29AM (Unverified) said

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One potential issue that LL and SL may have is that in restructuring the world to move it away from the 'Wild West' - brothel and casino on every corner - to a 'Your mother would approve' business environment they may have created a solution to a problem that only a few have and thereby potentially killed the golden goose. Too early to tell however.

Posted: Jun 8th 2010 1:34PM (Unverified) said

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It's too bad that the product evangelists are being pushed out. This is the time when Linden Lab needs them the most. Will never understand companies that push out or let go of the people they need the most during times like this. But then, will never understand companies that don't pay attention to basic organizational management 101 principles.

Posted: Jun 8th 2010 12:45PM (Unverified) said

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Why is everyone surprised, and why don't you want to talk about the obvious??

The reason 2nd life is sucking down the tubes is very simple.

They alienated the entire adult community, and treated them as something less than what you would find under the sole of your shoe.

This, while the ONLY THING profitable in 2nd life was the adult oriented stuff.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out.

Posted: Jun 8th 2010 8:55PM (Unverified) said

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Quite interesting, Tateru. From my perspective, I'm curious that the people around SL Enterprise and Marketing are being "cut down". This is very, very interesting. As a SL Developer I've always wondered how SL Enterprise was to become a viable product compared to the competition that allows you to run your own grid behind a firewall — which comes mostly from OpenSim or, well, Unity3D, which is growing slowly to become the "SL killer" in the corporate/educational market for all solutions requiring Web-based access, mesh imports, and single-user installs.

But I was quite alone in this. All other SL Developers *adored* SL Enterprise from the first day; they have multi-billion-dollar corporations as their customers, and the price of SLE is more than justified for the million-dollar projects they routinely get. Since this is a tier which I cannot reach, SLE was not something I expected to deploy soon.

I see that most people have really no idea of what corporations are doing in SL these days. It has absolutely nothing to do with media splash, marketing, or "doing something with/for the community". Almost all projects are quite closed and turned inwards; they are mostly training/simulation. It's true that SL is also used for conferences and meetings; I disagree that Skype is a "much better solution" — I've been on several 20+ Skype conference calls, and the quality, experience, and maintenance of the voice connection is way below the standards of SL voice, and in SL at least you can share things on a web panel (if you're using SL 2.0, of course). You can't share folders, that's true, and that's something that would be very valuable — but also quite dangerous.

Corporate and academic projects are also very, very long term these days. Long are gone the days of one-month-projects which were announced at the beginning of the month and shown to the public a few weeks afterwards. These days, projects are for 3-5 years. Most people on this thread (excepting Tateru, of course :) ) will have completely forgotten SL by the time these projects are launched.

So it's curious that LL is cutting that specific area down. Perhaps they had huge expectations which were not met. In that case, downsizing the area of business that has failed to live up to expectations seems to be a good management decision. LL might be just focusing again on the residential market, and that makes sense to me.

Long-term it will be really hard to beat OpenSim anyway. Sims in SL are simply too expensive. Academic projects requiring to rebuild large cities — say, needing 50 sims — would cost a million US$ just in tier *during the development phase*. It's too expensive. For a million US$ you can buy a hundred servers and associated bandwidth for 5 years... and get a few techs to set you up a 1,000-sim-grid while you're building your project. Or, of course, just get a handful of servers, implement your 50-sim-city, and save that million dollars.

SL sims will either have to cut down sim tier fees dramatically, or start offering different models — say, leasing for US$2000/month a 1024x1024 sim with 16 CPUs, 240k prims, and the ability to get 1600 avatars on it. You can do these combinations on OpenSim, but it's hard to get so many avatars (there are tricks for dynamic balancing though).

But of couse such offerings would also make sense for the residential market. They certainly would get buyers.

The bottom line is, perhaps LL is really just re-evaluating their market and what it's supposed to be — at least, besides the home user, which LL knows well for the past 7 years. And while they're doing that, they're dropping the enterprise market for some reason.

It'll be interesting to watch :)

Posted: Jun 9th 2010 12:17PM MaggieL said

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Gwyn--

"Web based access, mesh support and single user installs"?

Don't forget http://openwonderland.org , the 100% Java open source toolkit for creating collaborative 3D virtual worlds.
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Posted: Jun 8th 2010 10:07PM (Unverified) said

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Hi Tateru, I'm a journalist working in Singapore, can I get in touch with you regarding some aspects of Second Life? Please email me at the address provided. Thanks!

Posted: Jun 8th 2010 11:42PM (Unverified) said

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Yet another sign that could be interpreted as LL going down....

Posted: Jun 9th 2010 1:18PM (Unverified) said

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Oh, you're right, Maggie. OpenWonderland is definitely on Linden Lab's list of "potential competition" to Second Life — one of the 31 platforms they've identified as such. I just mentioned Unity3D because my own company is losing a lot of prospects to Unity3D, but never to any other product :)

Posted: Jun 9th 2010 1:19PM (Unverified) said

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@TigroSpottystripes if we looked at all the "signs", LL would have been "going down" since 2002... :)

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