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Reader Comments (19)

Posted: Jun 1st 2010 4:11PM (Unverified) said

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I so wish this would go F2P I would be ther ein aheart beat even with a cash shop. I have a max level Bounty Hunter account pre NGE and am wondering what it would be like to try it out again - just to see...

But Sony want £9/month for me to see, too much. :(

Posted: Jun 1st 2010 4:20PM J Brad Hicks said

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Even more than NGE, it was the proliferation of Jedi and the wreckage of the player-run economy that ruined this game for me. But in balance, I want to stress those last two words: "FOR ME."

Because here's something people don't seem to like to think about: SWG is still in the top 10 subscription-based MMOs, still (last I heard) boasting more subscribers than City of Heroes, which is considered a success. I'm not sure that SWG actually does count as a failure; it only counts as a failure to live up to people (like me) unrealistically hoped it would be.

Posted: Jun 2nd 2010 11:00AM (Unverified) said

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The proliferation of unbeatable Jedi and the complete collapse of the player driven economy. This is what destroyed the best PVE centric sandbox MMO's of all time. I wish they'd make a sci-fi game minus the Star Wars license but with the old SWG engine (Jedi would even be fine if it was still 3 kills to permadead). That would be epic.
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Posted: Jun 1st 2010 4:55PM Zantom said

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I don't know what the future holds for SWG with the upcoming Star Wars games coming out. This article brings back some of the pain that was the NGE. I had since returned to SWG long after the NGE debacle and to my pleasant surprise found that much of the NGE damage had been mitigated (except of course the class system).

I have since enjoyed the game, however, I do not believe I will ever bring myself to fully trust SOE's MMO management. If I play their games again, it will be on a mild surface level, without investing too much time and money. There are just way too many good MMOs out there now to get burned like that again.

Posted: Jun 1st 2010 4:57PM Brianna Royce said

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I understand why people hated the NGE; even I hated the NGE. The first year of the NGE was miserable both for content and for morale. But people need to understand that the game has really moved past the NGE and is sort of in phase three, a hybrid and improvement of both eras. It's pre-NGE, with NGE layered on top, with pre-NGE layered back on top of that, and a whole bunch of new goodies on top of THAT! Nowadays, (with certain notable exceptions) the game is in much better shape than it was pre-NGE. People who like Star Wars and sandbox games really ought to give it another look.

By the by -- the server merges were fantastic for the game. Consolidating the playerbases was a brilliant move on SOE's part. More games should stop pretending, and do the same thing.

Posted: Jun 1st 2010 5:00PM CCon99 said

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There's a trip down memory lane. Actually more like a roller coaster ride down memory lane. =P

As greedy as SOE is, I'm still surprised they never even tried toying with the idea of a unsupported "classic" server. As much of a sore spot the NGE was with players even to this day, 5 years later, it seems like an easy gimmick to bring in a quick rush of subscribers. I guess their pride is just greater than their greed.

Still a great read, accurately shows the many ups and downs this game had over its lifetime.

Posted: Jun 2nd 2010 3:22PM RogueJedi86 said

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I assume they won't make pre-NGE/CU servers because doing so would mean they'd have to admit they made a mistake in doing the CU and NGE. You know how big companies are, they never want to admit that they did anything wrong. They have their way of corporate spin. Plus none of the devs on the game now worked on the original pre-CU/NGE game, so they couldn't tell you what code IS the original game.
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Posted: Jun 1st 2010 5:11PM (Unverified) said

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SWG pre-CU was and will be the greatest MMO ever. I just remember when the first few Jedi started to pop up on the servers. The feeling was indescribable really. Also cruising around the planets and your suddenly in a player created town.

Not one MMO has been able to do what pre-CU SWG accomplished.

Posted: Jun 1st 2010 5:56PM Kyarra said

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Pre-cu SWG was the best game I had the pleasure of playing. I got jedi after 26 profession unlocks in early 2004. Was a very hard road to get to jedi only to have anyone be able to unlock in the dreaded NGE. I have played post NGE and while it is better now then when it first came into play, nothing ever beats pre cu swg. How I miss thee :(

Posted: Jun 2nd 2010 12:30AM (Unverified) said

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Such a tired, tired subject....

Just two minor points
First, they changed the game (for better or worse) for a reason, it was grindy garbage and losing subs fast.

Then this quote -
"game lost as many as two-thirds of its subscribers by 2008, no further expansions released, and nobody could spin the closing of 12 servers in late 2009 (leaving 13 active) as great news. "

-by 2008...5years after launch...2009, 6 years after launch....4 years after NGE...why would anyone need to "spin" that? it's old.

By comparison both AoC and WAR went from over 40 servers to 4 in under 2 years. Tabla Rasa had shut down in 2 years. That all needed "spin" not Grandpa SWG.

But here we are 5 years later and people are still moan about their Stars Wars skinned Lineage 2 being taken away and look at the replies here, "proudest moment was when I unlocked Jedi after 20 some odd professions" weee..sounds like "fun". How many weeks of mindless Bol grinding did that take?
Then, to add insult to injury....it was to unlock something which should have never been put in the game, Jedi.

Posted: Jun 2nd 2010 1:05AM Tristik said

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One thing about the pre-CU era is that a lot of people fog it over. They don't remember the parts that sucked about it and only remember the parts they liked about it.
I played late hours and trying to find Doc buffs so that i could actually go out and do ANYTHING combat related sucked so bad that I ended up with a 2nd account just to have a doctor.
And, yes, the game wasn't much of anything besides a big huge grind. The open-ness of their original class system will never be improved upon though, as it was the greatest way to do skills I've ever experienced.

It will always be heralded for the way it handled skills and the fact that the game was all about the players (cities, crafting, pvp). But too many forget that it was mostly just a giant grind-fest (filling Force Sensitive xp anyone?).

The game as it is now is still enjoyable and infinitely playable. Take away Jedi, and the new class system, and it's still all pre-CU underneath.

Posted: Jun 2nd 2010 1:54AM Greeen said

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yep, you are right. everyone (even myself) talks so much about pre-NGE in only positive ways (more or less), but noone talks about the grind.
during the CU period, all people did from was to grind bols in PUGs to reach 80 asap and then to gain xp to trade in in jedi village. because that was about all there was to do if you weren't a crafter, or so it seemed.
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Posted: Jun 2nd 2010 4:46AM Tristik said

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Yeah, that or rolling around Overt when you got bored just to get your but handed to you by a Jedi or a CM/Rifleman hehe.

And, ah, those solo-groups. I had 64 meg of on-board video back then and those used to lag me up so hard. :D I preferred huurton packs though myself.
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Posted: Jun 2nd 2010 7:42AM Starry said

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This NGE version of the game is still riddled with controversy, in-game issues and a serious low population problem. Sure, half the servers were closed, but well over half the remaining servers are ghost towns. There are no plans to remedy this situation outside of players being charged $50 per character in transfer fees. Even returning players who have main characters locked away on closed servers are now being hit with this ransom fee. A player always has the option to reroll on another seerver, but many veteran players do not relish abandoning established characters that have untold rewards and resources linked to them

Saying the game is far better now is not really saying much given that it could not have been much worse outside of having the plug pulled. If SOE had directed its resources on game fixes and core content instead of constantly focusing on unwanted game revamps and the next cash-grabbing expansion, the game would undoubtedly being far better today than the NGE version is.

Posted: Jun 2nd 2010 7:52AM (Unverified) said

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For me, it was the removal of permadeath for the Jedi that was the beginning of the end of the game. Lots of players put a lot of hate toward Smedley and SOE when it was players themselves that nerdraged the forums wanting a lot of the changes. It was like George Lucas got a hold of the game. The influx of Jedi into the game was like the introduction of Jar Jar Binks. An unnecessary add, only appealing to young kids.

At the time of the CU and NGE, SOE was loosing subscribers already. WoW was proving to be the powerhouse no one expected but a scale that was unimaginable. So to label SOE greedy isn't right. They were desperate.

SWG is still one of the great MMOs and it pains me that other companies borrow from WoW instead of some of the great concepts that SWG came up with.

Posted: Jun 2nd 2010 3:47PM RogueJedi86 said

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Funny thing though is the stuff it's obvious WoW took from SWG. Someone will probably correct me and say someone else did it first, but WoW's talent tree system looks awfully similar to SWG's original class system. The interlocking skill boxes that were prerequisites for other boxes, many of which gave passive skill bonuses or active abilities, culminating in you reaching the top tier of specialization in a tree with a skill that really helps what you've focused towards? To me the WoW talent tree system is a simplified version of SWG's class system. It worked, and WoW is all the more successful because of it. I'm glad that TOR is in turn taking the same system and making it even better with its Advanced Classes system that reminds me even more of SWG's system.
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Posted: Jun 2nd 2010 3:44PM RogueJedi86 said

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Where are all the NGE haters who normally chime into every SWG-related topics to moan about how the NGE sucks? This topic is surprisingly devoid of them considering it's an open invitation to talk about SWG's long history, including the pre-CU/NGE days, and the dark days after the NGE hit.

In hindsight I don't even see what was so bad about the CU. All it did was make the Mind and Action pools not attackable, plus it streamlined armor stats a little. Nothing that drastic.

For what it's worth, SWG still has 90% of the sandbox stuff it always had. It still has 10 worlds that are 16*16km in size(and another that's 8*8km). It still has player housing and cities and a robust crafting economy. The only sandbox part it lacks now is the 35 interlocked classes.

Hell, I came back to SWG after 4 years specifically for some of the stuff that hasn't changed. Say what you will of SWG, but its crafting system is one of the best crafting systems of ANY game. It's simple enough that anyone can do it, but complex enough that someone who really puts effort into it can be greatly rewarded. That was one of WoW's biggest failings I thought, the overly simplistic crafting system that didn't reward the people who put more effort into crafting. Crafters in SWG were famous on their servers. Everyone "had a guy" for food or armor or weapons or droids or ships or clothing. Contrast WoW, where people buy whatever's cheapest on AH regardless of who made them, because all items of a given type will have the same stats. If TOR wants more respect from me, they'll make the crafting more like SWG's than WoW's.

Another thing to love about SWG is how great its customization is. Hell, they had/have an entire class whose sole job is to change how people look(Image Designer)! The customization at the character create screen is more robust than pretty much every MMO out there(*stares at WoW's 4 body parts with maybe 5 options each*), and the Image Designing adds even more options. It's impossible to run into 2 people who look exactly alike unless those 2 people specifically made themselves look alike.

The amount of customization in clothing helped too, with EVERY bit of clothing(and there were at least a hundred different shirts and pants and boots and gloves and jackets and dusters and hats and shorts and hot pants and cloaks/robes) having dozens of colors to choose from, and with 2 or 3 different things on each bit of clothing that had those dozens of options. With the addition of the Appearance Tab at some point in the NGE, players can wear clothing as visible instead of their armor, and the tailoring industry flourished, with everyone looking different in their various outfits. When I came back 4 years after having quit with the NGE, I made use of my second character slot to make a Tailor, a dream I've had since before the CU.

So yeah, the NGE isn't so bad now that's it had time to recover. Think about it, the game has spent far more time in the NGE than the pre-NGE. The pre-NGE lasted 2 1/2 years, the NGE has lasted 4 1/2 years and counting. Isn't it time to let go of the part of the game that only made up 1/3 of its total lifespan?

The NGE still has flaws(the over-emphasis on loot cards from the card game when many of those items could and should be craftable deeds for the crafting professions, the lack of any retail expansions since the NGE hit), but it's nowhere near as horrid and broken as it was when the NGE hit, which is when most people quit and I suspect where a lot of the haters' experiences of the NGE came from. It's not that bad a game if you're willing to give it another shot.

Posted: Jun 3rd 2010 12:30PM Valdamar said

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I trialled it pre-CU and post-NGE and tbh SWG bored me to tears both times - pre-CU I think I spent longer downloading the trial client than I did playing it, post-NGE I gave it more of a chance but it still didn't grab me. It just wasn't action-packed enough for me and character control felt very wooly.

SW:TOR carries all my Star Wars hopes now, because I adored KOTOR.

Posted: Jun 3rd 2010 3:08PM phatbhuda said

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I was in open beta for Star Wars Galaxies. It wasn't any fun but it was Star Wars! Even still, I bought the game on release. It still wasn't any fun. Maybe after so many years and post NGE, the game can be fun for me.

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