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Reader Comments (37)

Posted: May 29th 2010 1:25PM Interitus said

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THANK YOU! This is why I quit WAR. I had returned to WAR last year and had leveled up with various other players. We all knew each other well enough despite being in various guilds. the 15 or so rgulars I palyed with all knew our abilities and how well we could play.

I eventually reached T4. I joined an opened group and was promptyl booted. I wasn't in the right alliance. I joined with a group I had been levelling with and was booted - I wasn't in their guild. I spent a day and a half bouncing from group to group trying to join with people who knew me and knew that I knew how to play my class. But they weren't in charge and had no say. So I would be booted. I would sometimes find groups who would accept anyone or people who my guild was allied with. But when it came down to it I was booted for being a lower level or not having good enough gear.

A day and a half after starting T4 I told my guild I was quitting the game. The elitism made me sick. They would have half empty warbands but I couldn't join because I wasn't in their alliance. At the same time they couldn't go out because they didn't have a full warband. What kind of twisted logic was this. I had people who could vouch for me saying I wasn't some random guy but that wasn't good enough for the guild leaders. I was so floored by this attitude. I had seen it before but not in almost every single group. I quit WAR and never looked back. For all it's flaws, the community ended up destroying WAR for me, not the game

Posted: May 29th 2010 5:48PM Degu said

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Pretty much why I left too...it seems to be a problem endemic to MMOs in general these days though. Could be exceptions, I don't know; haven't tried as many games as many of y'all. Got fed up with the last three I've played for any appreciable amt of time because of this nonsense.

My old WAR server was pretty much run by a tiny cabal of snooty guild leaders. If you weren't one of the Beautiful People, you were pretty much dirt.

It wasn't too bad until Tier 4, where the snobbery and asshattery kicked in big time. People who take a video game that seriously are some of the most pathetic souls on earth.

Best times I had in a MMO was (incredibly enough) early MP in lotro, before tribes came in and cliquery took hold. The actual gameplay was utterly atrocious, but the community was great fun, without all the stupid rivalries and snobbery they had later on...
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Posted: May 29th 2010 9:43PM GaaaaaH said

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Does the official city siege mechanic still boot you if a higher level wants to join?

(Mythic sponsored elitism)
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Posted: May 29th 2010 1:45PM Matix said

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Guild camaraderie is what defines a guild. Guilds should, IMO, support their members and give preferences to their members before other players. Otherwise, why even form the guild if you're going to work for it and build it and been treated the same as people who've given the guild nothing?

Beyond mere Guild camaraderie, however, is guild elitism. If your guild wants to be jerks and not help others. my response should be to find a guild that will help me. If I have a problem with the fact you didn't drop everything and help me, the proper solution is for me to go skydiving without a parachute.

The PROBLEM I HAVE with guild elitisim is when a MMORPG, like WAR, FOM, and others, allows anyone one guild or group of players to ruin the experience for everyone else. Any objective taken by multiple guilds and effecting multiple guilds should be held by several guilds at once, not just one.

Developers can also help by giving battle leaders command options--buffs for folks that follow orders (Charge = +X to attack, Defend = +X to defense stats, etc.)--when in the leader's presence. No guilds hold back away from the leader for fear of losing buffs, and no one can perform false-pushes or the like.

If you have better suggestions than those, give them to the devs of the games you love that are ruined by guild elitism.

Posted: May 29th 2010 1:46PM Slowrollin said

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Sounds like a completely busted pvp system.

Posted: May 29th 2010 1:51PM Monkey D Luffy said

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Sounds like those Guilds need to play Darkfall to really see who is elite, lol.

Posted: May 29th 2010 2:04PM karnisov said

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kinda sad that the community is cutting its own throat.

Posted: May 29th 2010 3:33PM DarthCheese said

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It is sad indeed. Then again the same thing is happening in WoW too.

Of course as a result you see the forums filled with people complaining about the lack of players (and progression) on their servers... rather amusing.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 2:06PM (Unverified) said

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As an x 5 year DAOC vet....I still search for a game that approaches what DAOC had.I was in WAR beta and saw that disaster coming.If any of you see any new games that seem to offer the promise of a DAOC like experience...please let myself and others know.

Posted: May 29th 2010 9:02PM GenericPerson said

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I second this. Much to the dislike of most of the people in this thread (apparently) I'm going back into Warhammer simply because it is the only game with the pvp system I enjoy. But I am with you and actively looking for that next decent RvR mmo. If there is a group from Massively, I would want in.
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Posted: May 30th 2010 7:41PM (Unverified) said

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Exactly what Dave said.

I've been out of WAR for about 4 or 5 months now, and during that time I've bounced back and forth between MMOs trying to find a PvP system that I actually enjoyed. So far, I have came up with nothing. So, I am returning to WAR to start back from the ground up.

T1 and 3 are my favorites, so I'll be hustling around them in no time. But, thanks to all of the elitism, and the fact that my entire guild died with Phoenix Throne, I'm pretty much going to be on my lonesome.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 2:06PM DrewIW said

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This kind of behaviour pervades through any game with competitive pvp. It is the classic cycle of "you can't join without experience", and "you can't get experience without joining".

Posted: May 29th 2010 2:56PM TheEmoryM said

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Sometimes craigslist feels that way.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 3:35PM (Unverified) said

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This is one of the reasons I love Eve Online so much.

The fierce learning curve keeps the knuckle-draggers away, and what's left is a mature, thoughtful group of people that are happy to help each other out.

This is no exaggeration. I can ask ANY question in Eve forums, and get 10 helpful answers. That's right, I said it - even the FORUMS are respectful...

Posted: May 29th 2010 3:36PM Taawa said

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Way to kick a game when it's down. These complaints are really overblown. Forming cliques is a pretty universal behavior in our culture. And when the stakes are high, like in a PvP game, politics and drama result. Generally the bad sports are well known on the remaining servers. They are treated to much eye rolling and are usually ignored. There are a few cases where the bad sports are guild leaders and officers, making them harder to ignore. But even then they can't break the game.

Posted: May 29th 2010 3:59PM Talkan said

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Personally, I love it when guilds act like this.

As a guild leader in WAR myself, I run a tight ship. My guildmates are taught to be respectful of every other guild who has proven themselves to be respectful in turn, but when guilds like this arise, it seems that my guild and others ensure that they can not prosper unless they change their attitude to benefit the server and not their four missing members.

Just recently an elitist guild who has on many occasions harmed the well being of our side has been forced to restructure their entire doctrine which now includes accepting members of any tier or renown, since they were losing too many players, and (generally) looking out for our team rather than their players in every circumstance. They've got a little ways to go, but they're making good progress.

Of course, I enjoy taking people who are on high horses for no reason and putting them in their place. What is a fun opportunity for me is understandably a frustrating and needless experience for others.

Posted: May 29th 2010 6:09PM (Unverified) said

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And this editorial sheds light on exactly why so many new MMOs are developing solo content and storylines.
Face it, it sucks to be shuned and excluded by 'the cool people', and worse off, being stuck deprived of content because you have not made the correct social inroads.

WAR was always like this example, with guild-only warbands and keep actions, and the infamous inter-guild exploits and swapping.
Usually works best to be so uber cool and elite that you can snag a developer or other employee into your guild as well.....

Posted: May 29th 2010 6:11PM (Unverified) said

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And this editorial sheds light on exactly why so many new MMOs are developing solo content and storylines.
Face it, it sucks to be shuned and excluded by 'the cool people', and worse off, being stuck deprived of content because you have not made the correct social inroads.

WAR was always like this example, with guild-only warbands and keep actions, and the infamous inter-guild exploits and swapping.
Usually works best to be so uber cool and elite that you can snag a developer or other employee into your guild as well.....

Posted: May 29th 2010 7:54PM (Unverified) said

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None of those examples sound like "elitism". They all just sound like common old "assholery".

Posted: May 29th 2010 8:17PM madeleen said

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I've been in T4 for many weeks now, and I haven't seen any of this misbehavior yet. And as far as guild only warbands, most players don't worry about it and just start their own groups.

The behavior written about in the article, I've seen in Warcraft. The game is big and even bigger with cross realming. Players get away with a lot in WoW. You try any of that more than a few times in WAR and it will lead to being ignored by a lot of players. WAR is a small town and everyone knows everyone else. Especially in T4.

It is the way these multi-player games are set up that encourage mobs. The developer who finds away around this game problem will strike it rich.

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