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Reader Comments (62)

Posted: May 28th 2010 10:32PM (Unverified) said

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Eep. I guess I have to moderate my own four-letter offenders. Bleh. Oh well. Reasonable.

Posted: May 28th 2010 10:41PM Mr Angry said

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Mr Angry has left the building

Posted: May 28th 2010 10:47PM Its Utakata stupid said

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Noooooo! :(
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Posted: May 29th 2010 12:26AM Seraphina Brennan said

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But, but, you barely (if ever) infringe the code of conduct! You're just angry! That's all! And that's allowed!

~Sera
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Posted: May 29th 2010 11:20AM Brendan Drain said

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I would miss Mr Angry if he left :(
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Posted: May 28th 2010 10:41PM oxlar said

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Can't say I'm a fan of moderating forums/comments except under extreme conditions. It always ends up letting some people get away with the same stuff that other people can't get away with because the mods like someone more or because those people express views of the site in a more 'pro' light.

As long as people arn't being threatened, racist remarks are not being used, or spam, I don't see any reason for moderation. And to be honest, I haven't really seen any of those things yet. So I just don't see how its needed.

Curious though, have there been complaints?

Posted: May 29th 2010 12:22AM Seraphina Brennan said

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Indeed there have, and there is the growing perception that the Massively.com community is not one worth interacting with.

To be perfectly honest, people have said to me that they don't want to attend our events because they don't want to deal with "anyone like the people in our comments section." I normally would brush something like that off, but it came from different people, at different times, and all of the cases were unrelated to one another. That's a very harsh set of criticism, and I know that it's not the case with our commenters or our events.

We want to make sure that a perception like that changes, as it's certainly not the case. We want to be welcoming and friendly, as well as show that the Massively community is really one that's worth interacting with. You guys come up with many great ideas and thoughts, and sometimes that's out-shined by the negativity. We want to make sure that's not the case.

~Sera
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Posted: May 28th 2010 11:09PM Dread said

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Will we see a similar 'Code of Conduct' in regards to the articles themselves? Something like putting in disclaimers when we see 'Paid for Advertorials' disguised as reviews?

After the recent Alganon fiasco where you had one 'reviewer' gushing about how great the game was and giving the softest 'interview' I've ever seen online to the lead producer and gave him a platform to rant on how great the game, despite every man and his dog knowing what an absolute fraudulent turkey it was, we the reader, and commentors, deserve the same respect back as you want from a 'Commentors Code of Conduct'.

Posted: May 29th 2010 12:22AM Seraphina Brennan said

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Dread, while I appreciate your concern, and I understand that you may not agree with Beau's statements, they are indeed his opinion and not "paid advertisements."

This is a sentiment that really needs to end, and no matter how many times I put my boot into it, it comes back. We take one of the strictest stances in the industry on "influenced media." Our advertising department is completely separated from the staff, we don't accept any form of gifts or travel expenses from any developer (when many other news outlets do), and we regularly give whatever we do receive to you, the readers.

I understand that you disagree with his article and here's the amazing part -- you can disagree with it. However, Beau's opinion is much like yours -- his opinion. You may take it or leave it, but you can be extremely sure that it wasn't influenced by any outside source.

I very much respect your opinion and I appreciate your candidness, but please do not spin it as if we were journalistically unsound.

~Sera
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Posted: May 29th 2010 12:54PM Cendres said

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If you want a closer view at the Massively writers and what kind of people they are I suggest following them on twitter or finding their personal blogs. I hereby certify that they are really the same person in all those places and on Massively.

Suggesting that they are being ad paid by games would suggest that their personal opinion changes from their professional ones, and they do not here.

Beau loves everything and especially games that have smaller budgets, that's sort of his thing. Seraphina does not love everything and is opinionated but funny about it.. ;P Every writer brings something different and I could bet they don't all agree about the same things either. :D

As for people saying they haven't seen anything negative on this site from commenters, I wish I could agree but I've often walked away shaking my head (or tsked tsked :/). IF you wouldn't say something out loud or to someone's , you probably shouldn't write it on Massively.. 90% of the time in life you'd rephrase those opinions.. Anyhoo.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 12:56PM Cendres said

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To someone's face*** Err editing!
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Posted: May 31st 2010 10:44AM Dread said

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Actually - I wasn't speaking about Beau ;)

When the entire MMO community says a game is a ripoff, nay a fraudulent ripoff, of several other AAA MMO's and then we get the very badly disguised shilling for said MMO in the guise of a 'review' with the 'reviewer' brushing aside the MAJOR complaints of the game, insulting Massively Readers and then word for word re-printing what the developers of the game are saying then we the readers have every right to post up a giant WTF?!?

And then to turn around and give the lead developer a mouthpiece for his inanity and treat him with kid gloves in one of the softest 'interviews' I have ever seen left no doubt in a lot of readers minds about the way the whole saga was handled by Massively.

Opinions are one thing, we all have them as the saying goes. But please don't for a second think that the average Massively reader is a turnip either. We do recognize paid for advertorials - especially when we are encourage by this site to 'give a game a go' and then find its a steaming pile if shit. And then when we come back here - en masse by the way, and report that its a steaming pile the same 'reviewer' dismisses everyone's concerns and basically bad mouths Massively readers in order to continue shilling for the game.
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Posted: May 31st 2010 12:55PM Seraphina Brennan said

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Dread,

So, I actually had to go do some digging to find out what you were talking about, as the only positive review I remember us printing is Beau's. Of course, this lead me to look at our original First Impressions article, and the original interview we did so long ago with David Allen.

First off, regarding the interview, we realized we softballed it. That's not something we hid. Shawn's first step after that interview was immediately setting up another one, and then asking you guys for your questions, which actually began our Community Interview option for a game. The second interview was obviously much harder, as we picked the best questions from the lot to ask to David Allen. So, in short, yes we screwed up, but we moved to immediately correct that and get the right questions in play.

Secondly, I re-read the First Impressions article. Now, I may be biased because I know Shawn and Eliot personally, but I can tell you that neither liked Alganon, nor did they "shill" for the game. Shawn made a nod to the very killer bugs with the line, "But in those crucial first ten levels, most of us wouldn't give a game a chance if it had glaring quest bugs, boring combat or mechanical glitches. Alganon has all of these." In addition, he makes it clear at the end of the article that he does not wish to play the game as well, stating, "While I don't see myself playing this game much now, I'd like to see where it's at in six months or a year from now."

His response to you was, "If you hate the game, you'll be outraged at the tiniest positives in an opinion article. If you love it, you'll be outraged at the tiniest negatives. It's human nature." Shawn's response was fair, as he did publish the negatives of the game and didn't "blow them off." He just didn't spend an entire article talking about them. He also didn't word for word repeat the developers. I'm not sure where you're getting that from.

To be quite honest, I don't see how any of this indicates that he's "shilling" for the game. We've been more than fair to Alganon, publishing both the good and the bad of the game (because, no matter how bad a game is, there's usually always one shining point somewhere) in addition to getting up-to-date-information.

Plus, if you really thought we as a site were "shilling" for the game, I'm not sure how you missed my Anti-Aliased where I completely bashed David Allen and his UI. http://www.massively.com/2009/11/12/anti-aliased-we-put-the-no-in-innovation/

We give every game a fair shake and a thorough overview to make sure every gamer can judge on their own time whether or not it is the game for them. We don't know what you like -- we're not people who are going to tell you what you like. We make sure readers have the tools and the knowledge to determine if this is a game for them. That's our goal.

However, all that said, that's in the past. That is not now, and at that time you didn't have me sitting in the position where I am today. I can assure you that even if you still think we did something wrong, we're moving to change that. We're more responsive, we're including the community in more of our work, and you have me to turn to if you feel something is off with the site. You can grab me at any time at seraphina@massively.com, and I encourage you to bring problems to me.

Phew! That was long, and I'm sorry. TL;DR version -- Shawn and Eliot did not enjoy Alganon, we don't shill for them, the interview was messed up so we did another one with community questions, and I bashed David Allen. Also, if you feel we're still somehow off at any point, you can contact me personally to discuss it.

~Sera
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Posted: Jun 1st 2010 10:51AM Djinn said

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Prove that its paid or stop saying it. Period. Otherwise you're just a troll.
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Posted: Jun 2nd 2010 9:41AM Dread said

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Cheers Sera I do appreciate the response and time you took to look it up and yes I did read it in its entirety ;)

So far I have been a Massively reader for a while and have enjoyed reading and contributing during that time. As an 'old school' gamer I tend to be very critical of games on the market nowadays with their dumbed down, over hyped, poorly written crap that's massed produced nowadays in virtual battery farms of socially inept programmers. I can normally turn a blind eye or just enjoy something for enjoyments sake (or just to waste a couple of hours with the best of them) but Alganon struck a raw nerve with me with its blatant fraudulent content and gameplay. If you re-read the comments on the articles I am talking about, from memory that was not Shaun's, you'll also see there was plenty of others not happy with the 'review' and followups especially when in the article the author chose to belittle some of the Massively readers/commentors, at the time I commented on the very poor form of that.

I'll state now - I couldn't be a reviewer. I can type pages of crap about things, and engagingly if I want too, but what I couldn't do is find positives in things I find to be steaming piles of crap. Whilst familiar with 'Strengths Based Practices' I don't agree with or use them...lets face it, if you've read any of my posts you'll know I am a complete cantankerous old bastard, I call a spade a bloody shovel.

Whilst I can appreciate those that can find some positives I don't agree that the strengths of a steaming pile of fraudulent crap should be extolled over the huge fundamental flaws.

I still read Massively daily - even those by the author of the other articles. I am just a bit more wary than I used to be now instead of willing to give something a go because of the hell of it and the review on Massively looked good.

Again, appreciate the response ;)
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Posted: May 29th 2010 12:57AM Graill440 said

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Your not the boss of me...

Posted: May 29th 2010 12:59AM oxlar said

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Thats absurd and ridiculess. Those people need to be a little more thick skinned. Comments are for opinions. Thats the real world. People disagree and are sometimes blunt about it. I find a community not worth comming to when you have a hand with a PC peace sign on it clapped down over your mouth.

Posted: May 29th 2010 1:53AM Seraphina Brennan said

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Perhaps "negativity" was a poor word. They don't want to be trolled. It's not that they can't deal with disagreements or opposing opinions -- it's that they brought up to me that the community was.... sometimes inconsiderate and harsh.

Not sure how to put it. I don't want to say profane, because it certainly wasn't. But sometimes people stepped over lines. This code of conduct simply wishes to stop that without stopping opposing opinions or debate.

~Sera
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Posted: May 29th 2010 1:59AM Seraphina Brennan said

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And, as an addendum, I went back and reviewed your posts. Out of the many that i reviewed, only one would have stuck out to me, and I simply probably would have asked you to attack the subject, not the other commenter, under these rules.

These rules are created for a specific set of circumstances that we want to see less of around here -- the bitter attacks and hateful tones. We can all disagree, but there's never a need for those things. And, luckily, the majority won't have to worry about these rules and can go on doing the same thing they always do. We're not clamping down, but we are trying to be more mindful.

~Sera
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Posted: May 29th 2010 2:30AM kasapina said

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I actually like the massively community, and the downranking system often allows the users to "mod" the trolls by themselves, even though sometimes it gets exploited to silence the guy whose opinion is different from the crowd.

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