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Reader Comments (8)

Posted: May 20th 2010 8:50AM (Unverified) said

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It happened to me about two weeks ago in eve-online.
I was part of an wormhole operation. Most of the investment and money for pretty much everything we build up inside the wormhole system and where I put in a lot of time to build up came from one single person who has a bit questionable character and moral. I know him from real live and that's why we actually had played together.
But after about a week there were problems between us. We had different opinions about how to play the game ... and also I maneuvered myself into a position where I was pretty much his slave. Everything I used was owned by him ... so when I did a mistake I like loosing a ship he roand and made a big drama how I could do it better and how stupid I am.
It was to much for me and I left the corporation two days after I brought new people in ... some followed me some not.
I was back to zero ... every cent I earned inside the wormhole system went straight into the investors pocket. That means that I was broke. The only things I had where the tools I could rescue out of the ship maintenance array and wich I paid from my own money I hardly earned outside the wormhole operation.
Now I have to start from scratch and try to get enough money together to get back into a nice wormhole system I can call home again.

Posted: May 20th 2010 9:06AM Valdamar said

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Most of my real life friends were poor online friends and caused lots of drama for me - I've had less drama and better friendships from online-only friends tbh - not to mention it's easier to disagree with or ditch online-only friends, because they don't know where you live and won't phone you up to give you a hard time :p

When I first played EverQuest in 1999, on a US server, most of the major dramas in my guild were caused by my RL friends deliberately clashing with Americans for comedic value (their xenophobia was vigorously returned I might add - that's where their amusement came from). It was often very funny, but it gave me a few headaches as their guildleader (from angry complaints). When we joined a US guild (made up of online friends I'd made in-game) my RL friends just couldn't blend in - as an officer of the combined guild I again felt responsible for the drama they caused. Fortunately most of them quit the guild/game before anything too horrid happened (though one of them did break up a RL married US couple in the guild, but it was the wife's fault more than anything as she was stalking my friend in RL and online).

The biggest drama was the rift between roleplayers/casuals and achievers/raiders, notably when the guildleader left the game and the new guildleader tried to turn the guild into a casual guild. Most of the guild were regular raiders and I was vocal in supporting that so they gathered behind me as their unofficial leader. So of course I became target for all the hate from the minority casuals/RPers - they blamed me for trying to split the guild up - which gave me a great idea, so I split the guild and created a new raiding guild from the ashes :p But for a while the drama was so stupidly dense that I almost quit the game to ditch the hassle.

Since I quit EverQuest in 2002 I've avoided getting too involved with big guilds, as big guilds continually seem to have stupid dramas going on. Since then I've either been in big impersonal guilds but turned down an officer role, or (more often) I've been in smaller personal guilds as guildleader - in the first case because it's less hassle to quit the guild if the drama becomes too stupid, in the second case because I find it easier to avoid drama in the first place if I'm the person "setting the tone" for the guild and keeping it all fun and informal (and in a position to kick out any drama queens).

Now in 2010 I rarely play MMOs with RL friends anymore (most of them have stopped playing MMOs and gone back to regular multiplayer anyway). One friend has stuck with me through the past 5 years of MMOs, an online-only friend I talk to more often than most of my RL friends, and we've never caused each other any drama - sure, there's an element of self-interest in the friendship, as it's always good to have someone you can trust implicitly in every MMO - but for those 5 years I've never been dragged into any stupid dramas that made me want to quit a game/guild.

Posted: May 20th 2010 9:13AM Faryon said

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Back in vanilla WoW I was accepted by the second "best" guild on the server and started raiding with them. It didn't take long before I realized that the raiding felt like unpaided work, the atmosphere within the guild was toxic to newcomers and I was basically pressured to play way more than was fun for me. So I did the only sane thing and left. The result was that I ended up on the ignore list of 30-40% of the guild, the guild-leader issued warnings to some of the other hardcore guilds to not invite me and the friends who supported me during the recruitment process were pretty dissapointed. To this day I have never understood why everyone got so mad.. When I left I had a positive DKP-rating, I didn't offend anyone in my "I'm leaving" forumpost (I think) and I never wiped the raid by screwing up.. I did however get a fair amount of epics that would have gone to some alt if I wasn't there, but I can't really believe that people would get so mad just because those items went to me instead of an alt.

Posted: May 20th 2010 9:37AM (Unverified) said

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Ultima Online.

"Look, dude, you have to help me get back my corpse from that PKer! All my stuff is there!"

-SirNiko

Posted: May 20th 2010 11:37AM Vestas said

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I started playing MMO's in 1999 when EQ launched. I stuck with it for nearly six years. During my travels in Norrath I ran across a guild who in the early years was pretty much founded on reputation and integrity. We held those believes long past the kunark and velious expansions. Holding on to honor looting rules even while being some of the top raiders on the server perhaps longer than we should have. As the needs of the members changed a schism formed around what it would take to enjoy the content and the guild split between those who wanted to raid end game content and those who, after 3-4 years were still not max level.

While this drama was intense and disappointing it wasn't crossing the line for me. That came a few years later after the Planes of Power expansion. As the guild was stuggling with progression through the Bastion of Thunder I had been spearheading access quests since the launch. Routinely unlocking access to new zones and new quests with a small group of folks interested in doing it, the rest of the guild was more interested in finishing Luclin raiding content. I had organized an event to unlock the BoT for t hose interested when several of the newer guild officers showed up. They proceeded to take over the event and then as the various drops for the key quest fell, they determined that the drops should go to them first (Despite several folks who I had brought and organized this for being only one or two items away). In essence the officers showed up with none of the quest done and finished with all of it done for them and no one who had originally come getting the final updates they needed.

When pressed the officers and guild leader (who was a good friend until that day) insisted that there was no favoritism and that it wasn't my event it was theirs. The guild leader sided with the officers over his 6 year friend (me) and that pretty much was the line for me. A few weeks later these officers who he trusted left the guild and joined the larger raiding guild on the server. He apologized to me then but I'd already left EQ, figuring 6 years was enough and I was done with watching the last of my friendships fall apart for no good reason.

Posted: May 20th 2010 7:17PM Bezza said

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I was a founding member of a multi-genre gaming association for about five years. In that time i saw several groups of people choose to leave the association and set up their own small group. I feel it is a normal part of the eveloution of guilds that splinter groups eventually develope and leave. Unfortuantly such splinter groups have little remorse for the damage they do to the founding organisation that brought them together. The level of bitterness created by such events can spoil a game altogether.

I simply don't join guilds anymore, my partner and I usually form our own guild and as we play together most of the time it works for us. Of course this means we dont get to access game content designed for groups. But it's a small price to pay for the relative peace we enjoy. Of course that does stop me from longing for the "good old days" but sadly i have yet to find a guild that can live up to my past experiances.



Posted: May 20th 2010 8:33PM Graill440 said

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This is the primary reason you dont join guilds or think you make "friends" online without meeting them in person and knowing them for a length of time. I dont belong to a guild per say but in the real life world there are 20 of us that know each other in real life. This isnt to say we play the same games (i am not playing anything other than ANNO and Borderlands mixed with some BC2), but we know each other well, and if problems arise ingame, the gang or anyone of use can talk face to face and solve problems, one way or another.

You simply cannot do this with internet aquaintances, folks you meet online or ingames and never meet in person, you simply cannot get a grasp of who the person really is or their intentions. When you know someone in real life, know where they live, the dynamics for a game change, folks are kinder, are not as quick to mouth off and know there is consequence for actions.

Niche games like EVE use the trust of people online to gain passwords to accounts, to corp assets etc, and there is nothing ingame to prevent this except the person in charge simply saying no.

When games like EVE give no way to prevent theft from real life interaction then they remain the small cancerous niche games, feeding on themselves, till they eventually die. EVE has struggled for many many years to gain subs, because of the iteraction model, they seldom do.

Imagine if the first big scam artist hadnt been caught and hospitalized, EVE would be even worse than it is now. I imagine others will be tracked down eventually and they to will face the music in someway for crossing the real life barrier between "its just a game" and "its just real life".

Posted: May 27th 2010 11:04AM DeadlyAccurate said

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I'm not sure what you're talking about, Graill. EVE doesn't allow players to access other players' accounts and passwords. They go to lengths to prevent it, in fact. When I resubscribed yesterday, I not only had to type in my username and password, but I also had to type in a character name (to prevent data-mining thieves from just being able to use stolen passwords to steal accounts). Yes, you can steal another character's in-game cash if you can con them out of it, but that's a far cry from being able to take something from a *player*.

And "struggled for many many years to gain subs?" They have over 300,000 active subscribers. (2009 PC World article: http://bit.ly/aAvbOh). And that's up from 2007 when they surpassed 200,000 (Massively link: http://bit.ly/wbbN8).

For a very difficult niche game, that's impressive growth.
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