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Reader Comments (24)

Posted: May 3rd 2010 4:07PM Wisdomandlore said

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If they keep itemization the same way it was in the original, I don't see it the new skill system as a problem. In the original GW, once you got to level 20, there was a great variety of gear, but most of it was comparable. There was no epic weapon everybody wanted. If GW2 is the same way, then which skills a weapon has will just become another measure of quality, just like stats and procs are now.

Posted: May 3rd 2010 4:03PM Arkanaloth said

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I must admit that until I get the chance to experience the GW2 setup myself I'm going to have to remain a bit skeptical. Now granted new isn't always bad but then again new isn't always better either.

I think the GW2 system *IS* more limited no matter how you slice it.. after all right now I can deck out my Mes with any weapon I want and create a build around it where as with GW2 seems like you will see a whole heck of a lot of mid-combat weapon swapping. Because of this it's going to be interesting to see how they provide a synergy between the first 5 skills and the last 5 skills. But the first thing I see being sacrificed to the decision is, as has been stated, the freedom to use any weapon you wish.

*BUT* clearly the game design will have to change too.. the mob to player difficulty ratio is going to have to be a LOT closer to each other in GW2 or else solo play would be impossible (since there are no HH teams in GW2). The one thing I'm constantly hearing though is player / player synergy but how will this affect you if you're soloing? Is GW2 falling into the bait & switch gameplay we see so often in MMO's these days, where you can solo to the level cap but at that point it's group play or I hope you enjoy farming.

I think that's one of the best aspects of GW1 meaningful group content AND meaningful solo content (well ok HH but still): Got friends online.. great, go enjoy the game. Friends not online.. that's fine too, go enjoy the game. Just feel like grinding a title or two alone.. awesome! go enjoy the game.

Sure the game has to evolve but evolution into the direction of standard MMO's is not good IMO. I quit WoW because I sat there one day grinding yet again cause nobody I know was online to run a dungeon and I thought: Why?, I continue to play GW because I know that even if nobody is online I can still HH everything but Underworld, FoW, Urgoz Warren and The Deep so I think to myself: Why not?

Posted: May 4th 2010 9:11AM Nepentheia said

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Hmm... I'm hoping the combat abilities of and interaction with the "Companion" that each player gets can allow for some combat synergy between the player and "Companion". This would be *really* nice when soloing. We'll see! :-)
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Posted: May 3rd 2010 3:58PM (Unverified) said

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The Guild Wars (1) is skill bar is already controlled by what equipment you got if you're a weapon dependent profession. A warrior using an axe will bring axe skills, just as a ranger with a bow will bring bow skills. There's really no change there, they just define a restriction that was in reality already there.

If you look at the way you can specialize in an attribute (they are called that, right?) in GW (1) you also got a restriction, you can't go completely berserk and put a little in everything and get something good out of it. No you can't. That's like making a hybrid that's bad at everything, congratulations you can't do anything. I believe the weapons will work in the same way, by restricting you just as attributes. And this stays true for both casters and weapon dependent professions.

Additionally the elite skill should definitely be counted as one you get to pick yourself. They will have fewer skills they said, but there will still be likely that you will have fairly many nice elite skills available, especially since you can pick race elites too.

As you said too, with weaponsets you will get a bigger array of skills, and all classes will also be able to better adopt to the situation. The healing skill I'm unsure about. Sure, for RA it's nice, but in GvG you had two dedicated healers that could focus entirely on healing, while the others did their role. To give everyone a bit healing would make GvG (or any other thing involving lots of stuff to keep in mind at the same time) horribly hard.

However I find it hard to believe they will make the game that way, and maybe the healing skills are just there to force another already existing "rule" upon the players: to always pack a rez, unless you're a healer when you should take a heal. For PvP that is.

All in all it sounds to me as if they add restrictions that reduce players ability to make horrible builds while still keeping the freedom of the system. It's definitely looking promising, and maybe I can for the first time play with a PuG in Guild Wars...

Posted: May 4th 2010 1:23AM arnavdesai said

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My worry is regarding staffs and caster off-hands. I dont recall any skills which directly use a staff for damage. That I believe is a big change for current guild war folks. The only instance I can think of is something along the lines of elementalists casting a curse and then burning their victim with the first hit from a staff. Also, are res skills counted as healing skill in the slot? If not, then we are truly talking only 2 skills for most solo players.
Synergy sounds awesome but what about folks like me who liked to solo sometimes? Have they confirmed that Heroes & NPC people will be present? if not, then its truly hard to solo & I cannot count on the mercy of strangers helping me out in the dangerous areas.
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Posted: May 3rd 2010 4:20PM Dumac said

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Because Guild Wars 2 has to be the same exact game with different graphics and playable Charr.

On a serious note, I was confused at first but i started liking it later, when i began to understand how it would work. You get to choose 5 skills on your bar even if your first impression is that you will only be able to choose 3. It's still a compromise, but it's enough to keep the complexity down and playability up.

I'm only not happy about the existence of racial skills. I feel I'm gonna be gimped if i choose a race with a racial i don't like, or that i might not be desirable in a group because i lack the racial skills needed for a specific strategy. I find the exclusion of secondary classes immensely more restrictive than 5 or even 3 customizable slots.

Posted: May 3rd 2010 4:40PM garlock said

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I don't think it's at all fair to complain and/or be concerned when we learn that Feature X from GW will not be in GW2.

GW2 is not a GW expansion or a new campaign. It is an entirely new and different game. With it comes an entirely new and unique gameplay paradigm. So what if we don't have secondary professions in GW2? We don't know enough about the gameplay to make any real judgements from that. The whole game is surely designed around single-profession characters, just like GW was designed around dual-professions. This isn't a gimp in any way because it will be like nothing was there to begin with.

Posted: May 3rd 2010 4:41PM Lobotomist said

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One thing we have not considered.

Weapons might not come with same set of skills. Skills on weapons might be part of itemisation.

Like sword of fire - might have firestrike skill

while sword of north - might have freeze enemy skill.


This would make collecting different items much more interesting than in any other game.

Posted: May 3rd 2010 5:23PM The Other Chris said

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I think Box is on the right path, especially with weapon-focused characters. Also remember that GW1 had 8 slots. In GW2 they are adding 2 slots, an Elite and a Heal, which 'technically' frees up two more slots.

One downside to this is that it eliminates a little bit of the flexibility from GW1 where you could make some odd but specialized characters that may have focused more on team-boosting rather than on attacks. The Paragon, for example, could have very few actual spear attacks and still contribute to the team.

My other curiosity is if casters will need to swap staves and wands around to give them access to different 'trees'. Would I need to swap out a wand of healing for a staff of protection before I could cast a protective spell on an ally. They mentioned that the Elementalist could 'attune' to the different elements on the fly. Would this require swapping between 4 different weapons?

Overall, I think I like the direction things are going, but the weapon swapping / cast issue could be a cause for concern.

Posted: May 3rd 2010 6:14PM Minofan said

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No; Elementalist at least do not need to swap weapons - in fact it seems they can't (not all professions have 2 weapon sets equipped).

Elementalist have 5 long range skills while they wield a staff, and 5 shorter range skills while they wield a scepter + focus.

Attunements are an entirely separate facility, and don't take up space on the skillbar - Elementalist can cycle between "in the blink of an eye".

When attunement is switched, all 5 gear skill slots switch to those of your new attunement - so basically Elementalist have 20 skills in their first 5 slots!

Apparently the staff & wand + focus skills are 100% distinct - making 40 gear skills total - which is why it looks like Elementalists will be one of the single weapon set professions; manipulating 40 skills at once would be quite the challenge!

No info yet on how other caster professions will work but, since flexibility is being pitched as the Elementalist's great strength, I think it's fair to say they won't have quite so many gear skills.

P.S. Not sure if I'm reading your comment right, but the devs have been clear that there aren't distinct variants of regular armaments - there won't be "healing staff" and "curses staff" and so forth, there'll just be "staff".
The gear skills are determined by armament + profession, so an Elementalist carrying a staff would have 5 (+^) particular skills while I Necromancer wielding that same staff would have 5 Necromancer-appropriate skills instead.
If a Warrior can wield that same staff (unlikely), they'd get 5 different skills too - likely using it to bludgeon some heads in!

P.P.S. There are irregular armaments though with yet more different skills.
E.g. the severed limb of an Oakheart can be picked-up & wielded as a club, while Elementalists can use Conjure Fire to create a special sword of fire that others can pick-up & wield.
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Posted: May 3rd 2010 7:54PM The Other Chris said

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In response to Vulturion and the different Staves/Wands. I understand that if a Monk holds a Staff (most any staff), they would have Monk skills. My question is, how will it know if I want to use a Protective ability over a Heal? How would it know if my Necromancer wanted to be a Minion Master over a Curser? This is my only real concern, and it may not need be a concern since we still don't know if either of these will be a class (though I'm sure there will be a 'healer' type class, and I hope we still have a 'minion/pet' class).

As for the Elementalist, what you mentioned about changing attunements sounds about how I thought it would be. My guess is that they may have a unique interface option with the 4 elements, for quick cycling.

"Apparently the staff & wand + focus skills are 100% distinct - making 40 gear skills total - which is why it looks like Elementalists will be one of the single weapon set professions; manipulating 40 skills at once would be quite the challenge!"

Don't be too sure, I can think of at least 10 different spells per Element that I'd like to see brought over/enhanced upon. ;)
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Posted: May 4th 2010 2:44AM (Unverified) said

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I'm very concerned that it will not take long to be fed up with only the same 5 attack skills for my weapon of choice, Still there was a lot of things in Guild Wars that was changed (Attribute Refund Points anyone?) so I have hope at some point I will have more control over my builds.

Posted: May 3rd 2010 7:31PM Arkanaloth said

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One thing is certain, with this newer stronger emphasis on weapons and quite likely weapon swapping... I want bigger bags Anet! ^_^

Posted: May 3rd 2010 6:04PM (Unverified) said

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My initial reaction was less than positive, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Posted: May 3rd 2010 6:53PM (Unverified) said

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I have big issues with what we have found out so far.
IT sounds like they will kill any kind of diviation of the normal path and make soloing a lot harder.

I hated permasin but I have nothing against someone wanting to solo a area,It just becomes a problem when they do it too well.I love playing with my SoS spririt spammer and clear parts of UW, i was fine when they nerfed SoS down,because ill admit the build was and still is to some extent very strong.

Think about illusionary weapon, that elite and the build you would make around it does not use any skills of the weapon you are using, because obviously that would make the point of the elite useless.Now yes we probably wont have a skill like illusionary weapon in GW2 but that is not the point.It will just be much harder to make a odd but effective build because your bar is bassically already set up for you and you cant change out most of it.

Other point, why do we have a slot that is set up just for healing skill?Has Arenanet ever seen a GvG?The warriors do not take a healing skill,because they do not need it, the monks take care of the healing.Is this a small step towards removing healing/prot monks from the GW world?

Another example Permasin, while the build itself was bad for GW the idea behind the build is a good one and is another thing that will be killed in GW2.

The build does not use any attack skills linked to the weapon that is used for the longer lasting enchantment, now with how GW2 is going, builds like this would never be created because you are restricted to using the skills linked to your weapon.You also will not be able to create it because you wont have /E to use Glyph of swiftness to keep up SF

Soloing will be harder because you will not be able to do as many things as you are able to do right now in

GW.Take the 55 build, which uses the deadly cesta (a necro weapon) and a enchantment weapon, lets take the totem axe as a good example.If we use the GW1 skills to fill out a GW2 build

You will have 3 axe attacks, which are useless because you dont have points to use em, 2 necro skills, which again is pointless because of attributes.you have healing breeze as your healing skill.

Now you get to choose your real skills so you need protective spirit,mendin and baltazhars spirit and you take shield of judgement as your elite.Now you have gotten the same basic effect as in GW1 the only differene is you have 5 skills which are pretty pointless which you could have used for more damage by taking for example essence bond for more energy or Symbol of Wrath for more damage or to a worse option Holy Wrath or say holy Strik to hit the while their down.

Also less choice is never ever good,change is not always bad but less choice is always bad.I just hope Anet realizes this is a bad thing before or during beta and changes it like many things they realized werent such great ideas with GW1.

Thank you for your time.

Posted: May 3rd 2010 8:20PM The Other Chris said

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"Other point, why do we have a slot that is set up just for healing skill?"

I wouldn't think of it like that. I see it as an additional skill slot that we didn't have before that is used for Healing. My Elementalist never really used Aura of Restoration, because I had more important abilities to use. However, GW2 allows me a special 'Heal' slot for such an ability. I still have my 8 'core' abilities. To me, it will make solo and small group play a bit easier (at least a bit more forgiving). However, for the Hard Mode or GvG stuff, you'll still want an all out Healer. I just don't see Aura of Restoration replacing any Monk I've played with. OK, maybe one or two. :)

"GW.Take the 55 build..."

I think you are correct on the second half, but they could easily change the requirements on the 1st half to be a wand and off-hand. The off-hand looks like it will be the same no matter the profession, but the abilities it offers are different for each profession. A Necro could hold an off-hand and get 2 Death Curses while a Monk could hold that same exact off-hand and get two Holy spells.

All-in-all things will be different. Sometimes different is good, sometimes it is not. Only time will tell. Being as my main is an Elementalist, I'm liking the direction they are going (overall) with that profession. I'm sure there are going to be things that I don't like (why wasn't ability X brought over? why do I need to wield Y to do Z? etc), but at the same time I think there will be many things that I do like (I can change elements on the fly? Yes please!). We are still months and months away from launch and I'm sure many things will change many, many times.
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Posted: May 3rd 2010 8:05PM wjowski said

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Given that they've already nixed one of Guild War game-defining features (sub-classing) I have few hopes of such.

Posted: May 3rd 2010 8:18PM (Unverified) said

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Change is good as long as they are not changing one of the very things that makes GW great, and thats skill customization. Having an 8 skill limit was ingenious and really made you think about what skills to bring.

- So now we have 10 skills, ok I could have always used an extra slot in the past,
- but 5 of those are predetermined by your weapon/race, ok I can work with that, that still leaves 5 skills to play around with,
- but 1 of those has to be an elite, hmm well I was gonna roll one anyway, no biggie,
- and another one has to be a healing spell, ok - wait what? -_-

Now we havent experienced the game yet, so we cant pass judgement yet, but these announcements do raise a few concerns.

I would have prefered if we could choose from a pool of weapon/race skills for the 1st 5 instead of it being fixed. Even a pool of 7 or 8 skills yields 21 or 56 different combinations.

What will the 5 skills be? For a warrior, will they be 5 dmg dealing skills, or will there be buffs, debuffs, stances, shouts, etc... what if the particular elite I want to use performs the role of one or more of the predetermined skills making them redundant.

Just my thoughts, but regardless of what happens I will be buying GW2

Posted: May 3rd 2010 9:38PM (Unverified) said

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People lets not forget that when it was all said in done, even with the hundreds of skills you had access to in GW1 with 2 professions, most of the those skills were duplicates of each other and most people give or take had the same builds.

Furthermore, with saving build templates anybody could quickly change a template to something some else is using so this talk about loosing that 'freedom' or 'customization' doesn't have any real merit. In fact, depending on how weapon gear will work GW2 has the potential to have far greater customization options than GW1.

There only thing that could be worrisome is what someone mentioned a few post up about possibly being left out due to preference for certain racial traits. As a Paragon primary in GW1 iv been through that process of not being wanted in groups because i was not one of the holy trinity classes. I hope that ANet does not fall into this trap again with the racial differences.

Posted: May 4th 2010 3:54AM Veplerion said

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I think it's a fine system. From the sounds of it, ANet thinks it will be a lot easier to balance, not to mention it lets people start off with decent builds now instead of outright horrible builds.

Plus, you can't forget the whole skill linking aspect of skills now. Skills will interact with each other in ways that they never did before in GW1, so that adds a whole layer of complexity to the combat system that just wasn't possible in GW1.

Sure, if you had the GW1 skill system with the GW2 skill linking it would give you even more options, but that has to be an absolute nightmare to balance. There's a reason why ANet didn't do it and went they way they did instead, so let us give it a chance.

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