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Reader Comments (17)

Posted: Apr 17th 2010 4:19PM (Unverified) said

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"Advance notice for new features"

I have to disagree with this one - notice if features are removed sure, but new features should not cause compatibility issues for existing content if done right
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Posted: Apr 17th 2010 4:25PM (Unverified) said

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I’m not talking about compatibility there, really. Both the operator and many users are ostensibly in the same business: Identifying the needs or desires of users that the platform fails to adequately provide for, and then providing it, for profit.

Whether that’s in metrics, security, information systems, virtual landscaping products, or whatever.

Profit is found in the non-entropic portions of markets and industries.

Imagine that you’ve identified a clear user need or desire. You’ve done your market research, figured out your product or service to satisfy them. You’ve paid money and time in software development, Web-hosting, domain names, product development or whatever. You’ve spent months and perhaps hundreds or thousands (or more) of dollars creating a viable business model.

A week before you launch, the platform operator announces exactly what you’re doing as a new platform feature, available… right now.

Your money and your time is wasted. Waste that could have been partially or wholly avoided if the platform operator had indicated their plans ahead of time. It isn’t a rare scenario, either – I’ve seen it happen too many times to comfortably count.

Surely it isn’t business critical to make nearly every such feature a jack-in-the-box surprise.
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Posted: Apr 18th 2010 7:29AM (Unverified) said

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But should disclosure even be a business decision here? And should platform maintainers be forced to disclose the projects they're working on to anyone aside from their share holders (if even applicable)? In the scenario you've provided, the platform developer would have been making the same investments as the theoretical content provider. And that content provider should have had the wherewithal to realize that the platform maintainer would in all likelihood emulate their success.

For instance, Blizzard incorporating the successful endeavors of independent UI developers. And even going further, implementing rules that might prevent them from making money for their work. It actually is within Blizzard's rights. I personally question how moral that all is, but it is their walled garden you're playing in to begin with.
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Posted: Apr 17th 2010 4:42PM (Unverified) said

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Well, the issue there is simply one of business risk - something that is common in all businesses. Should platform owners engage in what is essentially protectionism? I say no - if the platform owners' offering is better for end users, then tough luck for your own offering - if your offering is better than the platform owners' then you will win.
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Posted: Apr 17th 2010 4:48PM (Unverified) said

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I don't think it comes down to protectionism, so much as actually telling your users what you're doing. Their trust, after all, is one of the operator's primary assets.

The operator can erase any market in the platform more or less at will - and (frequently, it seems) quite unintentionally. It seems to me that that confers some level of responsibility.
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Posted: Apr 17th 2010 4:46PM (Unverified) said

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Telling your users is fine, but having to give 3 months advance notice? That's suicide if your competitors are bringing out features as fast as they can code and test them (I emphasise test - if your competitors aren't testing, then they'll fail anyway).
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Posted: Apr 17th 2010 4:51PM (Unverified) said

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So far, that's never been an issue in the industry. Platforms are simply too diverse for one to suddenly try to ape an upcoming feature of another. Especially with feature development times exceeding 12 months routinely.
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Posted: Apr 17th 2010 4:53PM (Unverified) said

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They need to code more in python ;)
With the right QA setup, features can be rolled out in HOURS. IMVU come to mind for a fairly well known example.
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Posted: Apr 17th 2010 7:27PM (Unverified) said

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"If the operator terminates your agreement/cancels your account, then they terminate your content." Wow, I never really thought about that one, even though the very same thing happened to me (LL cancelled my account, yet all my creations still remain and reside on their servers, and were available on Xstreet for a while). While I won't take any legal action for that, it certainly is an unfair approach.
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Posted: Apr 18th 2010 1:09AM (Unverified) said

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I would add reasonable recourse against any accusations and/or disciplinary action --- a judicial system.
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Posted: Apr 18th 2010 7:12AM (Unverified) said

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I think consumer rights laws (at least in the United States) largely provide adequate protection for consumers in regards to virtual environments/on-line games/etc. Intellectual property, et al, is the realm of EULAs and other software-related agreements, which should be left to the courts when disputes arise.

Until there's some virtual environment that is somehow essential to the society it serves, or is open enough that every user owns the content they create, then we're really just talking about business transactions and all of the nuances that come with it.

That said, I do have concerns in regards to privacy/integrity and confidentiality of user data, and fairness in regards to the cancellation of service. Both will require some form of additional legislation. Privacy will be complicated, and a more of a living set of laws. Fairness, as it stands, is basically not even implied: any service provider can cancel your service for whatever reason, just because you clicked "I Agree" on a long-winded and vague EULA (which are iffy in court to begin with). The customer's only recourse is either litigation or the refusal of payment through their financial institutions (which forces one to engage a neutral private and third party). But what if you paid with a prepaid time card? What happens to those lost funds?

Good discussion, I wish I had more time to consider it.
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Posted: Apr 18th 2010 3:24PM (Unverified) said

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I disagree with the notice for new content. I find the surprise element of finding out new stuff on my own very satisfying. Taking out features or content without informing is very deceitful business practice.
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Posted: Apr 18th 2010 4:06PM (Unverified) said

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Vote with your feet:
--------------------------
This policy simply states that if a company cannot provide protections for both sides of the fence, that the users agree to leave the service and not continue to support the service. No matter how hard, no matter the reason.

To many times you hear, "I don't agree, but what else am I going to do?".
And agree to the terms by using the service despite the fact they don't truly agree. If you cannot agree, you need vote with your feet.

---

I think what you wrote above is sound. You cannot come out with your guns a blazing like some known company does every time. One sided contracts or terms do not work. And certainly not when sprung on people that have an investment in time and energy at providing alternatives to others. Number 2 is just a given. No more "yeah, it's your IP", then blockade everyone from access or removal of their own works while providing no way themselves to use your own works on other services or even backup under their own terms.

#2 - That is just a given. And the most important IMO.
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Posted: Apr 18th 2010 4:25PM (Unverified) said

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@Hans,

"But what if you paid with a prepaid time card? What happens to those lost funds?"

Well, most likely just what happens when you terminate your own account. Don't believe for a secondlife that Linden will put your money back on the card. I called in and they told me I had to pay US9.95 to activate the account to remove 5000L or about 20USD. They wouldn't transfer the funds to the new account, nor would they put the money back on the credit card.

So what do they do..? Simple, they keep your money. Just like they keep your work and claim you have rights to your own works.

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Posted: Apr 18th 2010 11:23PM (Unverified) said

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The standard setup is that if you owe the operator anything (money, or an obligation) then you still owe it even after you or they terminate your agreement.

If the operator owes you anything (money or an obligation), then the debt is canceled instantly if either of you terminates the agreement.

Fair? Not hardly.
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Posted: Apr 19th 2010 1:30AM Graill440 said

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Game developers need their feet held to the fire like any other software or hardware developer. The release a faulty product (as defined in resonable iso standards for software manufacture) then they need to pay, a eula is not a protective barrier for a developer by any means.

If we had the same criminal liability levied on these game developers (they take our money dont they?) we would be seieng better products today, as it stands they are getting away with anything they choose, it needs to stop.

Any lawyers out there working pro bono? Possible big money...sniff.....sniff....

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Posted: Apr 19th 2010 11:31AM (Unverified) said

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Game developers are held to the same standard. Any product sold comes with an implicit fitness: that is, it will function and it will function as advertised. Otherwise they're liable to be held accountable.

This is a true story: I purchased Age of Conan along with a 60 or 90 day subscription (I forgot how much). The game crashed endlessly due to faults and a memory leak on two of my systems. Both far exceeded the recommended requirements, and both were different architectures (one had an Intel CPU and Nvidia GPU running on 64-bit XP, the other AMD and Ati on 32-bit Vista. I even attached one system to external storage - the boons of being an engineer - because system-related storage drivers were in some of the kernel stacks in the dumps).

After a few weeks of this I told my bank about it and they charged back every last cent. Funcom declined to protest - because I assume they knew that they were at fault. If they had chosen to pursue I would have easily, easily won.
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