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Reader Comments (125)

Posted: Apr 2nd 2010 12:40PM Cendres said

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Romances are fantastic in games, to me they add to my character's adventure, and if not romances then at least strong friendships, you develop a much better attachment to characters if you are allowed to interact with them and if they have personalities. I love how BioWare companions have their own flaws and strength and how you can influence them, the next step would be to have them influence you.

Also if something bad happens to them they die, or they betray you, it hits home a lot more then if this was just some pixel animation robot you never had to chance to get to 'know'. It's all about experience the story on a more personal level and not so much about bringing fantasies to virtual life. Though I won't deny there's some of that but to me it's on the same level as reading a great book with adventure and romance, or watching a movie, tv show ect.. It's more visceral in a game because you're participating and not just watching.

So in the end to me same sex romances or not, it's all the same if you're going to have romances it would be hypocritical NOT to include same sex choices, and it's not adding anything in in my view but it would be leaving something out if they didn't do it. Same sex relationships are just as natural as hetero pairings and it would be ignoring a percentage of players. IF same sex interactions aren't in they might as well just can the whole romance bit and leave it at friendship. I've got little tolerance for head in the sand tactics, where you allow one thing but ignore something else just not to ruffle some people's beliefs.

Wow I wasn't expecting to write so much.. :P

Posted: Apr 2nd 2010 1:11PM (Unverified) said

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..well I'm glad you did.
Very nicely written, and I wholeheartedly agree. =)

For me, more-so in DAO than either of the ME's. In the latter I never really ended up feeling any empathy or ethos for the characters as they felt just a bit forced, but DAO really nailed it (for me, anyway).

Duncan, Morrigan, et al really felt like genuine entities with flaws, fears and strengths that I became endeared to over the course of the game.
Bioware really 'came of age' with that game, in terms of true character development, in my opinion.

Ironically however, it was the romantic/sex scenes that spoiled it for me.
I guess because they were so awkwardly rendered or something, they made me cringe. I would have far preferred a 'fade to black' rather than a haphazard attempt played out on my screen.

And perhaps this sort of approach is what should be in store for any form of romantic involvement (straight or otherwise) in TOR, especially given the diverse range of reactions this topic produces.
In the words of Alfred Hitchcock: "There is no terror in a bang, only in the anticipation of it” (less is more..)
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Posted: Apr 2nd 2010 1:35PM Cinnamoon said

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I hope Bioware bucks up and puts in all kinds of romances, gay, straight, biologically-impossible aliens (/Garrus). They won't be as good as actual RP with actual people (and let's hope Bioware doesn't forget that) but there are several gay relationships in the SW expanded universe, all approved by Lucas himself, so it's not out of line with Star Wars at all.

I think Bioware should treat the homophobes exactly as they treat those offended by interracial relationships in game: as if they don't exist.

Posted: Apr 2nd 2010 1:03PM archipelagos said

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This topic is going to need a bomb-shelter from the rage that will descend upon it. I wonder if I'll that cost me extra from the Massively store. *wink-wink*

Posted: Apr 2nd 2010 1:08PM JediPagan said

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If there are going to be relationships in the game, then same sex relationships ought to be included. We've had 5 years of female night elves dirty dancing with each other. Everyone should be pretty blase about it now. If your religion makes it offensive to you, that's your issue. Go play Left Behind MMO or something. Otherwise deal with it.

Most likely the game experience with relationships will be catered to the player. Your dialog choices will trigger the romance trees. So if you've got a problem with sausage parties, don't overly compliment you male NPC. See how easy that is?!

Posted: Apr 2nd 2010 1:24PM Ryukan said

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Really?! They are adding the romance an npc subplot to SW:TOR?! BAD MOVE BIOWARE! This is just dumb, there is no need for this mechanic in the game at all, I was sick of the romance crap in Mass Effect, and then Dragon Age and then Mass Effect 2...please give this crap up already Bioware. All it has done is spark controversy, leaving it out altogether would have been the best idea and then use the freed up resources for something, anything else! This seems like one more step towards less multiplayer content and more single player content, please at least save it for the SINGLE PLAYER GAMES!

Posted: Apr 2nd 2010 1:30PM (Unverified) said

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Everyone has a point of view.

I think Same Sex Romance NPC's in Star Wars MMO is fine. I think that the Romance options in ME3 should stay as they are in ME1 and 2 however.

I also think that Romance NPC's in a MMO + single people/young people/couples that play MMO's = a interesting future and potential drama.

Imagine, it's 2025, and your 15 year old is in love with his NPC WOW3 Romance NPC Night Elf character, and you have motion control, full voice-work, and AI for NPC's that is 25 years more advanced then what we have now....

Imagine what CNN and FOX would say about such things? If you play MMO's with your spouse does that mean you skip and miss out on NPC Romance Questlines?



Posted: Apr 2nd 2010 1:34PM NeverDeath said

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Yeah morioch, you're absolutely correct about Political Correctness and the complete hypocrisy it represents. "freedom this freedom that, rights this rights that, but oh - you can't say or think what you want unless it agrees with MY ideals". It's preposterous.

Anyway, the only problem I have with homosexual romances in SW:TOR, is that I don't think I can recall anywhere in the Star Wars universe where there is actually an example of a homosexual romance taking place. While I could be wrong, I simply don't recall it. That is something that makes it seem kind of out of place and a strange fit for the Star Wars franchise. Also, I feel that it's not a feature that the majority of people will care for, and seems like something that would be added simply to pander to the PC crowd, which is the last thing anyone should do, because as any intelligent person will tell you, once you start giving in to demands of these small groups of people it won't be long until they have more rights and considerations than everyone else, as is evidenced by American society today.

I also believe that there is some credence to be granted to the claim that it is a waste of development resources, as it will no doubt effect a smaller number of the population while the rest ignores, avoids or disables the content completely. They have a lot to focus on with the big claims they're making and the backing-it-up they'll have to do to not come out looking like idiots, and if they spread their resources too thin on things most people don't care about, it's going to cause other areas of their game to suffer during the all-important launch, whereupon most players make their first impressions and decide to stay or quit. If they wanted to add it in at a later date, that would probably be the wisest decision if they were insistent upon its implementation.

It all goes back to what morioch said though, which is something I've been saying for many years about the people who will call you a racist or a homophobe for almost any reason whatsoever, urging you to be more open-minded when in fact, the narrowness of their own views is exactly why they are so hot to jump to such conclusions in the first place. They want to appease everyone of every group in every circumstance or they will complain, and it stems from these new-age yuppies who were born with their freedoms handed to them, who are ignorant to the fact that it's just not possible to appease everyone all the time.

Posted: Apr 2nd 2010 1:51PM Randomessa said

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"freedom this freedom that, rights this rights that, but oh - you can't say or think what you want unless it agrees with MY ideals".

-- you are absolutely free to say and think what you want, so this is a strawman argument, but thanks for playing. There are a lot of complaints about tolerance vs. intolerance and "extra" rights for certain boogeymen in your rant above, but I challenge you to name a single right of yours that is being infringed upon by the addition of a possible same-sex relationship for a player in a game that is completely invisible to the game community (that means you, and other human beings like you).

Let me spell it out for you: if what you want is the right to "not have to see that stuff", you got it; IF the option will indeed be in-game, you can freely choose not to avail yourself of that opportunity. To avoid putting it in-game to soothe your fragile soul *would* precisely be that censhorship you're so opposed to.

(dangit, I told myself I wouldn't look at the comments!)
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Posted: Apr 2nd 2010 1:40PM (Unverified) said

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As a parent: Fuck the kids who are playing MMOs. They will never achieve anything in life at all ever, so it will not hurt them to be exposed to same sex romance. Actually it's probably a good thing since they will go on to live at home forever and write Yaoi or Yuri Dojins.

Posted: Apr 2nd 2010 1:41PM Mr Angry said

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Not sure if this subject I can comment on, a bit outside my area of knowledge really, I'm happy to just let people to do their own thing, don't like it, just do something else, don't take it away from people who want to enjoy that content.

However, in SW:TOR, I just want to be able to hit on DROIDS, and as a minority group, I demand that they add appropriate content!!!

Posted: Apr 2nd 2010 1:56PM Cendres said

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Oh my goodness yes the love scenes in DAO were a let down because they were badly shot, wrong angles were used ect.. Mass Effect 1's two second sex scene is still the best, it's the shortest one from DAO and ME2 but has an artistry to it that is completely void in the latter games, whoever authored that scene need to make any future romantic scenes lol...

In TOR though I have to agree such scenes are better off not being there even though there's romances. There's just this massive can waiting to be opened...

Posted: Apr 2nd 2010 2:12PM (Unverified) said

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why is the option to do something that effects no one else, is visible to no one else, and will only amount to romantic tension even a topic? I'd understand if they sold the option to have same sex romance and then the option opened up +5 to some stat or another and gave your character fashion sense ability but as a non game altering CHOICE?? The world is full of choices, its the parents job to guide their child and give them the tools to make the choices which are right to them. How are they ever going to stand on their own and be the person you want them to grow into if all they do is mindlessly obey, what happens when they're faced with something they haven't been tutored in how to think about. I know there are more sides out there but to me it feels the majority of those who don't even want the idea entertained in a game are the same who would rather eliminate it from the real world as well.

As a thought, wouldn't limiting the romantic options to opposite genders be the same to one portion of the population as limiting the romantic options to only same sex ones would be to the other? Why is one more right than the other, just because the majority rules? Might doesn't make right.

Posted: Apr 2nd 2010 2:16PM (Unverified) said

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Well written piece, I could feel your want to state your mind yet remain neutral and look at things logically

Posted: Apr 2nd 2010 3:18PM killroy said

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@sera_brennan Great post.

I can't tell you how many times I've joined a new guild and found totally open hatred and homophobia. It's outrageous, I had to leave my first two guilds in Aion.

Regarding Bioware, honestly it did not really occur to me that SGRA was an option. I'm guessing because my natural tendencies led me towards the hetero side.

But seriously, Bioware deserves so much applause for:
A) Being one of the best game developers in the biz.
B) Having the courage to stand up in the face of a bunch of homophobes who are going to play their games anyways.
C) Setting an example at a time when the LGBT community could use it.

Really it is mind blowing how many narrow minded and hate filled gamers are out there, and it continues to ruin many gaming days for me.

Posted: Apr 2nd 2010 3:42PM Seare said

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I don't care if they include homosexual relationships. I'm not afraid. If I don't want it, I don't have to do it. As far as the children argument goes, my kids are not allowed to play MMOs. There are many more important, REAL, dangers to worry about, such as predators and hackers.

Posted: Apr 2nd 2010 4:23PM (Unverified) said

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"Sure, BioWare's romances may not be the best (I usually find many of their romance arcs to be a little forced), but they're not exactly horrible stories."

I still think that the most forced romance plot in any mainstream sci-fi story was in Blade Runner. A cop with a license to kill Replicants making unwanted sexual advances on a woman who just found out she's a Replicant? Ugh, creepy. And the fact that she "gets into it" just makes it worse.

I can't imagine any of the SWTOR romance arcs being that awkward and upsetting.

Posted: Apr 2nd 2010 5:36PM hansh0tfirst said

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You do appreciate there's been an ongoing debate since the film's launch whether or not Deckard (Harrison Ford's character) was a replicant himself?
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Posted: Apr 2nd 2010 4:43PM (Unverified) said

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I can't believe this topic is an issue at all, let alone deserving of the ridiculous amount of attention and argument it has caused on the ToR forums. What decade is it again?

It's depressing.

If Bioware is including the ability to have romantic relationships with companion NPC's in the game then it should include ALL types. Period.

As far as including an option to disable romances, it should either not exist at all or disable ALL possible romances.

Anything less would be discrimination as well as idiotic. It would also cause me to not buy the game or any game made by Bioware again and I'm heterosexual (not that this should even matter).

Which would suck since I usually really enjoy Bioware games :(.

Posted: Apr 2nd 2010 5:26PM hansh0tfirst said

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As a red-blooded American and shameless heterosexual (raised Roman Catholic too, no less), I find it appalling and hypocritical to discriminate against gay, bisexual and/or transgendered people.

If you assume your audience is mature enough to handle romance-oriented content, then nothing short of intolerance and outright bigotry should stand in the way of including *all* orientations (well, with the obvious exception of pedophilia — sorry Pope Benedict).

P.S.: I suck at being the spy in Team Fortress 2 as well.

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