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Reader Comments (33)

Posted: Mar 31st 2010 1:51PM (Unverified) said

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CO has definitely come a long way for the players who have stuck with it from beta to Revelation. Vibora Bay is an excellent map, the style and feel of the city is one of the best areas of the entire game at this point. Some of the actual missions are still grindy but, they have tried to make teaming a bit more appealing in Vibora.

Yes, the powers still need to be thoroughly rehashed for balance. Yes, teaming is still an issue. Yes, the crafted travel powers are the ultimate time-sucking grindfest.

To all of these issues, I can point to parallels in the only other MMO that I would care to compare to CO and that is COH. There were PLENTY of power balances (re:nerfs) that pissed everyone off and brought over powered sets into focus with other sets. There were tweaks and additions to end game, lairs and team dynamics as well. All of these things came in time, and all ended up in the final recipe for one of the greatest MMO's of our time, COH.

I give CO the same time frame for greatness because I for one, think that Champions already great. Not perfect, not without frustration and fault, but still great fun to play.

Posted: Mar 31st 2010 2:14PM (Unverified) said

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There's two glaring issues that you fail to point out in the parallels you draw.
1. CoH was also made by Cryptic
2. CoH came out five years prior to CO development

I submit that this is a company who, after listening to 5 years of feedback from a game that is more or less the same, made the same mistakes when they made their new game. Willful or accidental ignorance, there is simply no excuse. To ice the cake, their CO's STILL talk like they're doing the fanbase a favor for fixing things they broke in the first place, and for FREE! WOO!
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Posted: Mar 31st 2010 2:56PM ZenJitsu said

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I'm with you, Kdolo. For example, I was quite surprised when they launched with a barely functioning Auction House...as if they learned nothing from all the other games' AHs with advanced search functions, bid options, sorting options. Even DDO, an F2P game, has a much better auction house.

Now, they're starting to implement a lot of features that CoH has, such as adjustable difficulty, teaming incentives, Flashback system. They're in this rut where they're not designing anything innovative, but just polishing things done before, but with More Cryptic Flavorâ„¢!

That said, Cryptic does realize this, and they are taking many steps to be better. I do applaud the hard work of the devs and people on the line, even when management there has no clue what's going on.
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Posted: Mar 31st 2010 3:50PM (Unverified) said

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@Kdolo - Your sentiments have been repeated, ad nauseum throughout this and other forums and we all completely understand your point of view. Try to see a DIFFERENT perspective while not feeling threatened.

Your so called 'Glaring Issues' are, at best, obvious:

1. CoH was also made by Cryptic
COMPLETELY obvious and irrelevant. If you are saying that Champions is a clone of City of Heroes then, I doubt you have played the game and if so, at a very 'surface' level. Some aspects, from an outsider's view may seem to be the same, but to be fair, I can't expect everyone to see it clearly from my perspective either. COH is a great game in my eyes but I thoroughly understand how it got to be that way.

2. CoH came out five years prior to CO development - Can't see your point here.
My point is that COH is a great MMO and had the same growing pains as CO. Yes I am comparing and contrasting these two games in the same topic, perhaps that was too deep for these boards but, I went there anyway.

We probably in the end, have to agree to disagree however, even if I am the lone fan of this game I think it needs to be stated and I am more than happy to say it.

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Posted: Mar 31st 2010 5:20PM (Unverified) said

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CharlieMack, the relevance of Kdolo's points are clear to anyone who bothers to actually read what he's writing..

Cryptic made CoH, improved on it for years, then made a new game in which they demonstrated that they utterly failed to learn the lessons from the mistakes they made the first time around.

If Cryptic had NOT made CoH, their mistakes on CO would be more forgivable, but they DID make CoH, so their mistakes border on lunacy, arrogance, or willful ignorance.
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Posted: Mar 31st 2010 5:42PM (Unverified) said

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CoH had more content on release than CO and STO put together but otherwise yes it was non combat light just as CO and STO and in fact probably lighter.I could say that a lot of CO's powers/skills are rehashes of CoH/CoV's but that would be unfair as they are all just generic comic book superhero powers.

CoH did seem to only grow after Emmert and crew departed(I don't count CoV which was just CoH reskinned).But that's a gray area really because more time has passed since they left than when they were working on CoH.

I tihnkit's totally fair for a new MMO to be held up against it's predecessor's and be expected to compete on a value level.

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Posted: Apr 1st 2010 12:38AM (Unverified) said

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Again, there are plenty of people who hate Cryptic, hate Champions and hate Star Trek and hate and hate and hate. As BCAnimus stated, please stop playing, and stop spreading the hate. Keep it balled up in your tiny little hearts until they burst. Then come out and join the rest of us just trying to have fun.

Oh, and PeterD - You haven't experienced HALF of the entire game because you quit at level 20. You've never visited Vibora Bay, Monster Island or Lemuria. Therefore, you can only half-ass your way through a meaningful conversation regarding Champions. I can't and won't accept narrow sighted views and let this be a lesson to all, if you really don't know the half, go play the games you like and let us have what we like. Deal?

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Posted: Mar 31st 2010 1:53PM (Unverified) said

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I wanted to love this game so badly, I argued and defended and ended up agreeing with those I argued with in the end. Their game seems to have lots of everything except content and fun.

Posted: Mar 31st 2010 3:23PM (Unverified) said

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I feel the same as you. I love the genre and wanted to love this game but not only was it too much like CoH for my taste, but I felt it just wasn't very fun. I tried it at launch and I even tried to give it a shot for the free weekend but I still didn't like it any better. It still felt like a mediocre game that lacked polish charging a premium price. I guess I'll have to wait for DC's game to get my fix. Hopefully they are learning from Cryptic's mistakes.
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Posted: Mar 31st 2010 1:54PM Vandell said

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"Older and more literate" community pretty much always means "smaller and dedicated". I guarantee that if Champions had millions and millions of subscribers, the community would be just as painful as WOW's. I hate I when people tout their 'mature community' as a perk to the game.

Posted: Mar 31st 2010 4:54PM wjowski said

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'Mature community' just means 'xenophobic assholes'.
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Posted: Mar 31st 2010 2:18PM Samael said

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Welcome to massively's fortnightly Cryptic days.

Posted: Mar 31st 2010 2:32PM (Unverified) said

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Reading the history above it is a surprise they made it this far. Roper was promoted not simply replaced according to news reports... go figure.

Having 4 max level characters and having played more than my fair share, I lasted longer than any of my friends. After trying the free weekend, I have found not much has changed. Still gimped abilities, more nerfing since I left and the same re-treaded content. If this were a F2P or didn't have a subscription, I would tell people to try it out. In its current state, not worth the price of entry. There are just too many great games out there unless you REALLY want a superhero game then I would say give CoH a try as it is just as good if not better.

Posted: Apr 6th 2010 9:09PM Tridus said

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It's amazing how long Roper has been coasting on his previous success at Blizzard. He's done nothing but failure since.
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Posted: Mar 31st 2010 2:48PM (Unverified) said

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I played during the free weekend last/this week and yes the game is far more stable and the engine performance is much improved since open beta and there did seem to be more missions in the lower levels I played in...not new content just more missions created for mobs/areas that have always been there.

obviously I can't talk about Vibora bay since I wasn't of the appropriate level or the new end game instance.Skills still seemed poorly documented though slightly better but still pretty poorly balanced and melee still seemed to have be at a distinct disadvantage though that did make things more challenging.

I still find the costume creator in CoH/CoV far superior in being able to mix and match parts though yes CO has the better custumization to the player model itself.I did liek the new layout of the power house though and found th eintial game more new user friendly.

But in the end not enough has changed to make me consider subbing over other games and to me most of the changes are stuff that should of been standard at launch and have been in other MMORPGs.All this is CO moving a step closer to being launch ready.

If they truly balanced the powers and delivered on their total customization promises i.e. being able to make any power combination work and not be gimped.and properly document the game then they'd have a good base to finally really start growing the game from.

Really not enough has changed for 6 months of subscription time IMO.

Posted: Mar 31st 2010 3:01PM (Unverified) said

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Honestly, I like this game. Maybe it's not for everyone, but I like the way that they are going ( it was time...) and I hope it will continue to grow in this direction.

I know there is a lot of Cryptic haters( and I know why... when I heard VB was going to be a paid expension I was... wtf!?! they really are killing our game!)

but I think that this game worth a look.

Posted: Mar 31st 2010 3:10PM hansh0tfirst said

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LOL @ "a game that is more or less the same"

CoH didn't launch with PvP, crafting, loot, or character re-specification.

CO did.

They also abolished their class-based system, XP debt, the "need" for abilities like Stamina, and gave players access to improved customization and travel powers (not to mention capes) at much earlier stages of progression. Many (if not all) of these features were a direct result of listening to feedback often characterized as "mistakes" with CoH.

Posted: Mar 31st 2010 3:45PM (Unverified) said

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Just to give a bit of background, I was a major hater of CO post launch. My crew used to openly mock the game, and it's taken a lot of work to get to where they are now. It still has a long way to go but IMO it's going in the right direction.

Posted: Mar 31st 2010 8:08PM (Unverified) said

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only been playing for a week and have two level 15 ish characters but so far I am enjoying it. a billion times better than CoH/CoV which I tried for a while but I hated it. the two games may be similar to long term players but what differenecs there are must be important.

Posted: Mar 31st 2010 4:47PM (Unverified) said

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Whether CO has come a long way or not massively needs to stop sucking up to game publishers and developers and adopting this "they made a booboo" attitude. This entire article reeks of it.

Cryptic knowingly released a product without enough content, then patched it to make that content cover even less of the game on day one.

They released a game with no skill resets and incomplete and misleading skill descriptions and then compounded that error by radically altering skills people had invested in.

The article places the blame for the whole Deake thing on Deake without even considering the other possibility; that Cryptic DID intend to release Vibora as a paid expansion, that Deake was doing his job and they needed a scapegoat when the playerbase revolted.

The article then acts like the title shuffle Cryptic did with Roper and Emmert is anything constructive. When the people responsible keep their jobs with new titles that is not progress its appeasement without any real change.

I love reading Massively I just wish you guys would stop being so kiss ass and be a little more investigative journalist and favor the consumers over the publishers and developers.

The fact is Cryptic released not one but two products way too early without enough content and buggy/incomplete and there should be someone other then random players who voice that fact and try to hold them to the grindstone so they don't do it in the future.

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