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Reader Comments (12)

Posted: Mar 13th 2010 12:29PM (Unverified) said

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'Square has proven time and again that they hate giving players clear access to information about the workings of the game. So it's the pressure of the industry versus a longstanding set of bad habits on Square's part. I'm leaning toward the latter.'

Very few people may agree with me on the point I am about to make, but, I perosnally like the fact that they don't allow the Theory Crafters to get thier hands on everything. WoW may have taught us that players wnat to know all the inner workings but it also shows us once we have all the numbers crunched and input to a spreadsheet your likelyhood of being kicked from a dungeon group becomes a matter of GearScore.

It's not 'Bad Business' it just preventing complete min maxing. I knew Enough in FFXI to stack certain Characteristics. I didn't need to know each point of Agi is x% Accuracy and x% crit contribution.

Anyway a decent write up. Although I look forward to the release of FFXIV for you because all the Mog Logs tend to sound like you kinda hate FFXI now which is a shame. Hopefull the new game can perk you up again
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Posted: Mar 13th 2010 12:34PM Eliot Lefebvre said

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Oh, I most certainly don't hate FFXI. I wouldn't write a column on it if I did. Unfortunately, my past two columns have been one on disappointment and one on all of the great things I hope the sequel will bring, so I can see why that tone might come across a bit.

I guess that means my next column should be unabashed affection, perhaps?
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Posted: Mar 13th 2010 4:47PM (Unverified) said

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In FFXI, you can be kicked from the group for your class choices instead. Not what I'd call an improvement.
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Posted: Mar 13th 2010 11:37PM GryphonStalker said

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"It's not 'Bad Business' it just preventing complete min maxing. I knew Enough in FFXI to stack certain Characteristics. I didn't need to know each point of Agi is x% Accuracy and x% crit contribution."

I'll have to respectfully disagree, it didn't stop complete min/maxing; all it did was take the excel sheet of it. So instead of making sure a player has X amount of Block or X% of dodge with whatever gear, you had to show up in a Optical Hat, Sniper Rings +1 and Leaping Boots, etc.. to excel at your job. Which personally, I think is the heavier burden.
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Posted: Mar 13th 2010 12:37PM archipelagos said

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I absolutely love that illustration. Made me smile.
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Posted: Mar 13th 2010 1:06PM (Unverified) said

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Thank you so much! Any opportunity I have to draw a Malboro (and make it adorable) I take!
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Posted: Mar 13th 2010 8:03PM Betel said

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"In FFXI, you can be kicked from the group for your class choices instead. Not what I'd call an improvement."


And were you kicked because the developers didn't reveal all the information within the game? It has nothing to do with his point, which is good. It's logical to NOT to give all information out there for the players. It doesn't stop min/maxers, but it certainly slows them down quite a bit. I want to prevent that as much as SE does, so think what you want- there's a benefit to not telling us everything.

I agree that allowing jobs to do multiple things at once is an improvement, and helps especially the partying aspect of the game, which I feel will be very important this time too. The easier they make it to group up, the less it matters if you can't solo all the way.
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Posted: Mar 15th 2010 12:35AM Averice said

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Well when you aren't given the information, you can find yourself playing a class that no one wants to bring along. I agree gear score isn't great, but I feel that it's mainly a causality of double upping on ilvl for each new tier of content. This is supposed to be fixed in Cata, so the inflated resources necessary to complete some of the raids won't really exist anymore, as everyone will be closer to each other in terms of stats. Gear will still matter, just not as much as it has mattered for the second half of Wrath.

Blizzard doesn't reveal all of its information. Theorycrafters are just that, theorycrafters, and I'm sure FF11 has plenty of them. Blizzard has occasionally offered a few numbers here or there when an issue really came to a head with the community, but they don't just hand things out to players, that's really the community around WoW. There is definitely a benefit to not telling players everything, no doubt, but players deserve enough information to make logical choices about their characters progression, not to mention in FF11's case, a logical choice about what class to level up in the first place, since apparently that's very very important.

Article was nice to read, I'm looking forward to FF14, I didn't get a beta key either : (
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Posted: Mar 13th 2010 8:08PM Bhima said

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I think its fine that devs don't want to give up all the secrets to the game. They want people to explore it for themselves. This approach to game design is only fun or intriguing if the skill resets aren't too painful. If the skill resets are too ridiculous to get, then the sense of "exploration" and "creativity" become an excercise in absolute frustration prompting legitimate flamefests on the forums.
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Posted: Mar 14th 2010 3:49AM wjowski said

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Trying to prevent min-maxing is like to trying to prevent the sunrise.
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Posted: Mar 14th 2010 5:30AM Betel said

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Of course it'll happen one day. But no, it's not like trying to prevent sunrise, because about this you can actually do something. It'll happen eventually, but if they can delay it for a year or two, that'd be the best,
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Posted: Mar 14th 2010 5:51AM Betel said

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Are you given information in other games that "class X is bad, don't play it?"

How will it help you if your skill description reads "deals 0,546% of damage in a 4,32m radius for 2,4secs if your target is staggered and has enfeeble Blind on. Affected by Intelligence by 1 INT = 0,023521453% damage and 1,34326% accuracy." That tells me nothing about the classes popularity.

I've noticed that while Blizzard of course keeps some of the information unknown, they really encourage min/maxing with their method, and the community doesn't really have that much to find out within the game. It's all laid out for them.

I would say that you don't need that much information to do logical choices about your character. Play a melee damage dealer? Stack on strength and dexterity. Play a nuker? Stack on Intelligence. What is "best" and what each ability exactly does is not required to make logical choices.

Yes, there could be something to hint at what class is good and what isn't, but I don't know how SE could accomplish this, and if you really care about it, you can ask the community about it. I'm sure they'll tell you everything you need to know.

That is one of SE's strategy's good (and bad) points. Not knowing too much encourages players to test things, ask things from others instead of never interacting with anyone.. but on the flipside, for things such as quests if you don't know where to go (not even a hint), you're forced to check various websites with info and that shouldn't be the case, really.

So yes, there's a line where giving too little information can hurt the game, and there is also the line where giving too much information can hurt the game. If we don't know exact statistics and mechanics of the game, I don't think we've crossed the line of "too little information" yet. Strength and attack help your attacks, Dexterity and accuracy helps your hit rate, Intelligence helps with nuke spells, Mind helps with curing spells, Vitality and defense makes you take less hits.. Even if the choices aren't "the best", that doesn´'t really ruin anything. You don't need to know to have fun. When the time comes, min/maxers will take that fun away and replace it with efficiency.. but is it bad to hope for SE to delay this as much as possible? I'm not really a fan of it.
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