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Reader Comments (19)

Posted: Feb 26th 2010 12:58PM (Unverified) said

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Thing is, I somewhat botched my guy up, I simply didn't know that putting X amount of AP into things I will never use or need now, can have an adverse effect on my in game homeboy.

So the thing is, I'm all for it as long as it's limited - I mean I don't think you should be able to respec every 5 mins. Once per char, or once per account. That's it. I learned my mistake(s) and now with my alt, I'm not making them, it's not rocket science, but I kinda like my 1st dude, and don't want to can him.

You know what I mean.

Posted: Feb 26th 2010 1:24PM (Unverified) said

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A single respec in the early 20's is all you need. I stopped playing at about 22 once I hit sector 2, saw what was on offer, and realised my character was specced completely the wrong way for it.

I have five year old twins, I didn't even think of starting over, I just cancelled and moved on.

I'm a big fan of character research too, but there was precious little to read up on in the few weeks after release.

Posted: Feb 26th 2010 1:35PM (Unverified) said

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As much as people love to moan and groan about it. They should follow the model that Warcraft uses. Respecs always being avalible in game for a reasonable price.

The point of playing these games is to have fun. But also to learn as you go. Some people do not want to bust out their spread sheets when first playing through to level cap etc. They want to experience the world the game has to offer and its usually at level cap that some people say hey I want an advantage in my gameplay time to sit down and do some research/math.

For those people who research out their characters before hand... well cool for you. You have an edge that should make leveling easier for you as well as understanding end game a bit easier. But thats your personal reward.

Respecs in game for a reasonable price work out for the hardcore and the casual alike. People have a misconcieved notion that only one of the two gets a bonus when in reality both style of players win because they can play the game how they wish to.

Also if developers feel their game will suffer due to respecs... Then your game most likely has some major issues such as lack of in game content. I do like to go Alt crazy and usually stick with one or two characters in any given mmo and my replay value generally comes in the form of respecing and mastering new edges etc on my characters class.

Posted: Feb 26th 2010 2:14PM (Unverified) said

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"The point of playing these games is to have fun. But also to learn as you go."

QFT. Put in a quest line for it, make it a big bag of chips, make it a rare drop item, but make it possible to respec, and more than once over the life of a character.
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Posted: Feb 26th 2010 1:39PM (Unverified) said

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small correction...

"I do NOT like to go Alt crazy..."

Posted: Feb 26th 2010 2:21PM (Unverified) said

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I really like the level 20ish respec idea. A one time- "here you go dumbass, hope you figured the game out by now" sounds about right and wouldn't be game breaking in any way

The learning curve in FE is kinda steep right out of the box IMO. The tutorial is pretty good for the basics but AP can be confusing to the first time player.

The help channel is awesome and people have been really great about answering questions but that didn't stop me from totally screwing my poor first character up and then ended up starting again with a little more focus on keeping AP straight. As someone else mentioned, I too have kids and quitting the game was my first reaction, but after resubbing to WoW for about 10 min I realized my mistake and promptly resubbed to FE.

Posted: Feb 26th 2010 1:59PM (Unverified) said

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Not being able to respec is generally a deal breaker for me. Now before you go saying learn to play learn to research, I do that already. I spend hours and hours crunching numbers on various abilities and hit site after site gathering information. I tend to plan out my characters well in advance of actually getting to that point, and I have them documented and notated so as to understand my reasoning for choosing what I did.

But if by chance I get something wrong, or if by chance I change my opinion later on, or if by chance I don't think that my original plan is enjoyable anymore, if I'm not able to change it, I'm probably not going to start over and will just cancel my account and move on to something different.

Posted: Feb 26th 2010 2:49PM swarmofcats said

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If you give full stat respecs at any time for a price, you have to realize that's similar to a class respec in other games. AP are what define your character, and if you let people reassign them at will then the character loses much of its identity.

I would love to try out pistols on my melee character, but from what the devs are advertising lately I'll never be able to do that because they are currently leaning towards no stat repecs. This is harsh, however I do see where they are coming from. It's kinda dumb if I can level a character all the way up on melee skills, and then *poof* decide one day he's a master of arms sniper extraordinaire but forgot how to swing a club. It kills a lot of the RP in the game and totally makes everyone's characters TRUE clones. (FE pun intended!)

Think of how stupid PVP would be in your favorite MMO if everyone was allowed to respec their class for gold endgame. Think about how stupid everything would be in your favorite MMO in a situation like that. I think the game would get boring pretty fast when everyone's character could potentially be EXACTLY the same as anyone else at any point in time. The only thing that would differentiate one character from the next would be their level.

So I'm in favor of limited respec, I think something along the lines of 10 AP from your skills can be reassigned every week. Skills only, though. As far as stats go, I would prefer something like 10 AP from stats to be reassigned every month. That way you don't have everyone jumping the bandwagon to the latest FOTM, and characters retain some uniqueness and RP identity. But it also allows the people who accidentally did something regretful early on in their character's life an opportunity to fix things over time without feeling like they are forever gimped.

Posted: Feb 26th 2010 3:28PM (Unverified) said

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Here's how I look at it:

I think I have a pretty good basic understanding of the system. I understand how crafting works, I understand how APs work. I am confident that I can get my 2nd character to max level (which I haven't done on any character yet).

But my first character...well that's a little ugly. I wanted to be a crafter, so I followed the "Crafter" AP model that is offered by the game. But I also wanted to be a Pistoleer. Well i also wanted to see what First Aid was all about. And I figured I should try a mutation or two. Now I do still have a lot of extra AP waiting for me, but at level 28 I already feel like I have misspent a lot of AP, and I'm not really sure how great this character will be as I continue to level up.

You might suggest I reroll now as I'm only level 28, but as a crafter I cannot justify completely abandoning the hours and hours of resource gathering, book research, and item crafting that I've already gone through. Starting over, for me, will be in some other game if it comes to that.

So a zero respec system means experimenting with things you might not normally try is increasingly unwise as you level up. Some things you can't even try until you hit sector 2, which means everything you've done to that point could be rendered moot if you make the wrong choice.

A one-time respec option is not significantly better. It will help overcome intial misconceptions and lack of knowledge, but players reaching max level will find themselves stuck and they'll continue to leave, as they have.

Posted: Feb 26th 2010 4:59PM (Unverified) said

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In this subject I would say Eve Online got it all correct, with the learning skill system.
Too bad I don't like being stuck in a spaceship...

Posted: Feb 26th 2010 6:15PM Bhima said

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WoW has perfected the respec system. Allow people to actually test out all the different complex build of each class. That way, you can truly pick what spec is most fun for you. The argument for FOTM specs is sort of a red herring because it blames easy respeccing as the imbalance instead of an inherent flaw in the game design to begin with. I doubt I would have been playing WoW for 5 years now if i could not respec as easily as I can. I think WoW has PROVEN that easier respecs are infinitely more popular and well received than, punishing, or non-existent respecs.

Posted: Feb 26th 2010 7:19PM TrendyGuy said

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I do think that players should have a respec but I do have two issues with it. The first being there should be a time limit after respecing. Maybe you can only do a respec once every 2 or 3 months. Also maybe you can only open up a respec by doing some long epic quest line.

The biggest problem I have with respecing in Fallen Earth, which most games don't have, is the game is classless. I don't want to see someone who played all 46 levels of the game as maybe a Rifle/Crafter decide they want to go pvp now and respec as a crazy melee build and not have any of the original skills they leveled up with. That makes no sense. Even in games such as World of Warcraft, which others have been referring to, you respec within your class skills. You can not be a frost mage and respec to a healing druid, you need to go from frost mage to fire mage or whatever, but you need to stay in your class. Since Fallen Earth has no classes it makes respecing a very touchy subject.

Posted: Feb 28th 2010 9:50PM swarmofcats said

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Remember that the level cap is going to keep increasing, too. So there are a lot of "free" Ap that will be spent somewhere without having to sacrifice what you already spent.

I still think a time-based option is the best bet. I don't really see them abandoning the entire stat/skill system anytime soon, I think they are smarter than that being what has happened to other MMOs that tried to reinvent the game midstream. Skill based leveling wouldn't be horrible, but remember that the main issue is not how to address skill respecs, but Stat respecs. Stats are really what define your character's core abilities (classes in other mmos) and don't lend themselves to a "use it and level it" system easily.

If they allow you to refund 20 AP (4 actual points) from Stats every 4 weeks, it would take about 4 months of game time to reassign one entire line of stat points. And on top of this time you'll be gaining new AP whenever there are additional character levels added to the game. I think that's pretty fair when considering what a huge change to your character new stats can make.

And it pretty much aligns itself with your idea for 1 respec every few months, except that you wouldn't be able to *totally* reinvent your character--just make adjustments as needed here or there. Lots of flexibility, but limited enough to be reasonable and fair.
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Posted: Feb 26th 2010 9:57PM Gaugamela said

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Well, in a ideal MMO every speccing option is equally viable in the game, but since this isn't the case in Fallen Earth i must say that they need to give an option to respec.

Even being a classless system they have to find a way to allow people to respec. They should try to improve their system to accomodate respeccing while making the players stick to some of their initial choices.

Posted: Feb 26th 2010 10:19PM swarmofcats said

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My idea would fit that perfectly: 10 skill AP respec per week, 10 stat AP respec per month.
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Posted: Feb 26th 2010 10:29PM TrendyGuy said

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I can see a 10 AP for skill points a week. That wouldn't be bad at all. But 10 AP for stats only lets you change 2 points a week since they cost 5 each.
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Posted: Feb 26th 2010 11:04PM swarmofcats said

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Right. Maybe the numbers are a little off, but the idea is to allow people to fix slight mistakes they've made as they were leveling so they don't end up feeling like a few misplaced points have gimped their character and they have to reroll.

I don't think anyone level 30+ really needs the ability to reset entire stat/skill lines for any reason. By then you know what you like about the skills and abilities and you have decided what you don't like. At that point, if you want a character to play a different role entirely--I'm talking about a big change like going from genetic enhanced PVP melee to social skilled PVE crafter--you should consider rerolling at that point anyways because you're totally redefining everything you leveled as and what your character ever was. It doesn't fit the roleplay aspect of the game, and it totally dilutes the world to the point where everyone might as well be playing the exact same character.

Something else that would be stupid, people would level with the easiest spec for leveling, and then just respec at 40+ to whatever they really wanted their character to be.
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Posted: Feb 27th 2010 3:28PM TrendyGuy said

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I agree with you on your points. But, they are adding new features to the game which would change the way I would have built my character. Such as currently my main character is a Rifle/Crafter. I figured I would have a crafting character that could take care of that whole side of the game and would help me level a new PvP type character later on. Now they are releasing information of being able to farm and such using the social skill in Sector 4. Now, I do not want to make a whole new character up just to be able to farm in S4. I want my crafter to be able to do that. But I have already chosen the stats and skills that character uses. I still want that character to be a crafter but want to change a few of those combat type stats more towards Social now.

I just don't have the time to level up a 3rd character now. Being a casual player I am only able to put a few hours of time each week in. I figured I would have my big bad combat character and then this crafting character for everything else in the game.

Maybe they should get rid of the whole AP system all together, I am not even sure it works that well to begin with. A skill system like Ultima Online would work much better in a game like Fallen Earth. Gain your skill points through using a pistol or using a rifle. If you want to switch weapons then you can pick up another weapon and decrease the one you have, but it would take so much time it might not be work it. But at least the option is there and you can try different skills without the worry of it being permanent.
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Posted: Feb 28th 2010 11:01PM sandwiches said

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I agree with limited respecs. HOWEVER, I believe there should a respec EVERY SINGLE time the devs change abilities. It's ridiculous to be told you're stuck with the new abilities after the devs decided to change them.

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