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Reader Comments (42)

Posted: Feb 8th 2010 9:38PM GaaaaaH said

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Buzzard: 28M: 3 Hours
Myrmidon: 65M: 2 Hours

Their figures are all over the place, plus putting down an 'average' rate of income is difficult.

Posted: Feb 8th 2010 10:33PM Cinnamoon said

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I feel like I outgrew this kind of overly-penalizing gameplay a dozen years ago in UO (though I loved it back then) -- my time/money is just too valuable to me now. But I guess it makes sense that lots of people go for it. If they didn't, Vegas wouldn't be profitable. :)

Posted: Feb 8th 2010 10:55PM Benicio said

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You're looking at it the wrong way. Because your ship is worth something in-game and out, makes it a game worth playing.

It's the very reason I left WoW for Eve. You grind and grind for gear and progression, then.... nothing.

Pilots in Eve know the inherent dangers. If you lose a ship, it's because you chose to take a risk.
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Posted: Feb 9th 2010 5:55AM Psychotic Storm said

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Actually, you do not have the right to judge who has it the wrong way.

both points of view can be valid according to who looks at them, so not one of them is right or wrong.

I would rather not loose everything, because of a slight miscalculation or worse the all to frequent lag (cool my shields are still 30% oh wait my hull is 50% now), its a game mechanic I accepted as part of the game but nothing I like about it that and the clone system.

What I would like to see is how many players have quitted after suffering a disastrous loss either an "irrecoverable" loss at a battle or some other unfortunate situation.
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Posted: Feb 9th 2010 7:39AM (Unverified) said

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Yea, sometime after graduation and becoming gainfully employed and learning the real value of time and money, games with punitive (especially overtly punitive) mechanics no longer interested me. It detracted from my enjoyment, my feeling of "gaming for the sake of gaming and having fun".

It's why I no longer even bother with games that have tangible death penalties. It's a game, you're going to die, and often via circumstances beyond your control. EVE eventually turned me off because it was so punitive that you could readily assign real world value to your losses. I can see why some (hell, something like 300k apparently) people enjoy that. It's just not for me.
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Posted: Feb 8th 2010 10:39PM J Brad Hicks said

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Excellent explanation. My one nit-pick is that it actually understates the cost (in money or time) of a PvP battle, because almost nobody quits as soon as they get their first ship blown out from underneath them. They make their way back to the hangar, grab another ship, and go right back out and get it blown out from under them, too.

That is to say, a busy Saturday evening in 0.0 space will cost you 20, 30, maybe 50 or more hours' worth of EVE work (boringly) farming asteroids or pirates for that 3 or 4 hours of getting blown up and blowing other people up. It's that or drop $15 to $50 a week on PLEXes so you can (in effect) pay other people to farm asteroids or farm 'rats for you.

You know what? No game's PvP is that fun to me. Which is why, once I actually felt like I was beginning to understand EVE, I quit it altogether and just read about it here.

Posted: Feb 9th 2010 3:18AM (Unverified) said

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learn to use insurance TBH

those figures does not take into account of insurance (for the t1 ships), and if you need to farm 50hrs to afford a ship, you're doing it wrong.
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Posted: Feb 9th 2010 3:31AM LaughingTarget said

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Insurance plus an hour od Tier 4 missions with generated salvage more than covers the loss of most ships.
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Posted: Feb 8th 2010 10:50PM Samael said

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Just wow, that is a lot of hard work wiped out in a few hours. EvE sounds like a fun game, but it is not for me at all. Now I know why all the drama in EvE.

Posted: Feb 8th 2010 11:16PM Graill440 said

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"Pilots in Eve know the inherent dangers. If you lose a ship, it's because you chose to take a risk."

The most ridiculous statement i have ever seen typed about EVE. Like most of the hype surrounding EVE its made by the few players trying to hang on and hoping oh so much the lifestyle they enjoy will continue to trickle their way.

The only risk in EVE, and its a dangerous one is the real life tactics endorsed by CCP against other players, but then countries that develop games like EVE seldom have values or quality control, and you have what you have, a tiny game.

As for the made up poster of money related costs for ships i can do the same thing with white and chocolate marshmallows verse hotpockets in their relation to EVE. Sheep.

Posted: Feb 9th 2010 12:07AM (Unverified) said

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(Disclaimer: I made this.)

The figures are indeed all over the place. It's really quite hard to get reliable data. Killboards tend to have antiquated and unrealistic values, but I didn't really have time to get current prices of every fitting item. My basic strategy was to get current market prices on the hulls (which vary the most in price) and then trust killboard values for equipment. It's not precise, and there's huge variation in fittings, but it was the best I could, especially when I don't fly most of these ships well enough to know what the best practice fittings are for everything.

As for the hours thing, yeah, I pulled that number somewhat out of my ass. I dug into people claiming average rates of missioning/ratting/mining income per hour in 0.0. These vary WILDLY and none of them factor in the costs of getting ganked, or paying for scouts to cover your mining op or whatever. So I agree, there's a particularly huge amount of noise there. In my first draft I had a range, but it was ugly and took up a lot of space, so I dropped it. If you can point me towards some good work estimating ISK/h income rates, I'd super appreciate it.

Posted: Feb 9th 2010 3:40PM Sean D said

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Points to anybody willing and able to take on a task like this.
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Posted: Feb 9th 2010 6:03AM DrewIW said

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^ not me
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Posted: Feb 10th 2010 1:09AM Benicio said

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It would be stronger if you left the time factor out altogether then. Seems it now detracts from an otherwise awesome analysis.
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Posted: Feb 9th 2010 2:25AM EdmundDante said

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Still a cool chart. Really good for Eve Noobs IMO.

Posted: Feb 9th 2010 7:43AM cchance said

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ya its good for a noob, and most of these ships can be flown in under a week, and flown properly in about 1-2 months, albeit not capitals but the capitals arent meant for noobs, their meant for people who have learned the ropes of eve, and have the experience to handle them...

Considering Carriers etc can't even use gates, technically if a noob was to buy one ( have seen it on the forum where some idiot bought isk and bought a carrier ) and hes stuck in a nullsec system unable to go anywhere ... why? BECAUSE CAPS CANT USE GATES! Theirs a reason that capitals and supercaps have such a learning curve... because not only do your characters need to learn to use them... YOU NEED TO LEARN before you even consider using one, especially once you realize without a CYNO your pretty cap aint going NO WHERE
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Posted: Feb 9th 2010 7:36AM cchance said

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I dont get WOW or any game that doesnt have any inherent risk, your clone makes your time and skills safe (as long as your not an idiot and have it up to date)

But people that b*tch that loosing your ship and mods because you stragled into low/nullsec after RECIEVING A WARNING, that you can get popped and loose your ship if you go through with entering lowsec, then your an idiot..

As for "how many people have quit due to an unrecoverable loss"

Wow you really shouldnt be playing eve...

Rules of eve

#1 DONT FLY ANYTHING YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO LOOSE!
#2 If you loose a ship and you dont have cash or time to rebuy it, please see rule 1!

Posted: Feb 9th 2010 7:40AM cchance said

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I mean seriously i tried to play wow, champions etc, and they just all felt like time burns, you sit their grinding and theirs no real risk to you, its like STO ya i can take my new pimp ship into a battle but after you realize u can just storm into it and loose the ship 100 times with little to no repricussions it just results in a game thats a bunch of idiots bashing their head against things till they get through...

The inherent risk in eve is what makes it worthwhile, the fact that missions, pvp, everything has that risk of loss, and that you actually have to use your brain is why many cant seem to catch on to eve, because it doesnt baby you, its a harsh universe and once in which their are real risks, and real rewards. The dude that got the titan can most likely buy it again if need be considering hes probably pretty good at making ISK....

The fact is most people that reach the level of titan know about the rules of eve and flying what you can afford, because for 1-2 years they've flown smaller ships...

Noobs loose their rookie ships to pvp etc, and learn right away that eve is harsh... But its also great once you get into a corp and have friends its unbeatable, and even in a noob corp, i've seen people get given ISK after getting gank'd and not wanting to start over in a noob ship... and they quickly learn not to fly what they cant afford to loose over and over again.
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Posted: Feb 9th 2010 9:24AM Sephirah said

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I prefer roussian roulette, you don't Chris?
No? Then you're simply a coward that cannot take a real risk.
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Posted: Feb 9th 2010 9:56AM (Unverified) said

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Harsh universe that doesn't baby you? Please. It's rule by the mob. It's just like a place where the schoolyard bullies are given free reign to do whatever they like to ruin your day, whenever they feel like doing it. Then people call it 'wonderful' and 'freeing' that one group of people can ruin the gaming experience of others. I could call it staggeringly insane that people play a game that's like a second job, and one that they'll never catch up to the long-term people on skills when they start, but I won't. It could be called laughable that the 'vets' of EvE constantly try to cajole newbies into the game by telling them that they can make ISK and get all the skills they need in a couple of weeks, while never mentioning that even after years of real time skill training the newbies will still lag behind the skill points and ISK of the veterans of the game because of the mechanics of skill training and the realities of gameplay.

Bottom line: if you want a game where you have to deal with asshats who are celebrated for their ability to ruin your gameplay at a moment's notice, play EvE (something like the recent Hulkageddon for instance). If you want to hear excuses about how somebody taking away weeks or months of your time because of a scam is something to be celebrated, play EvE. If you want to have a second online job, one that you pay to play, play EvE. If you don't want any of those things, and can stand to do without the rabid fanbois who rush to EvE's defense every chance they get, play some other game.

By the way, some lessons from an 'idiot' to you Chris:

1) The little red line under your word means that you're spelling things incorrectly.

2) The little red line is no insurance against stupidity in language. "Loose" does not mean "lose".

3) There/they're/their are actually all different words with different meanings, as are your/you're!

Perhaps, just perhaps, you should learn to use some of the simple rules of English properly before calling others 'idiots', hmm?
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