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Reader Comments (52)

Posted: Jan 29th 2010 12:21AM CCon99 said

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I find it funny that someone with the name "Hanshotfirst" as well as trying to use slash commands as part of the English language (few posts up), would attempt to call everyone else "nerdtastic".

Here have a tissue, don't be sad. I'm sure both Cryptic and CrypticKyle can take a few opinions that don't agree with them. Now go take a nap, you'll feel less cranky.
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Posted: Jan 29th 2010 3:08AM hansh0tfirst said

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Of course I'm a nerd. Who's more qualified to tell you when you're going over the deep end?
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Posted: Jan 28th 2010 11:19PM (Unverified) said

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There's a pretty obvious difference between the two (out of hundreds of) special in-game pets that Blizzard sells and charging to respec your skills which effect actual gameplay. This editorial made that point itself when it said how these pets don't actually do anything.

Believe me, if Blizzard began charging IRL money for respecs, there would be a lot of people angry with them as well.

Let's hope in the in-game respecs come sooner, rather than later. Other than that I'm looking forward to getting started tomorrow.

Posted: Jan 29th 2010 1:11AM Raithnor said

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I want to like this game but if it launches as is I'm not sure I'd actually BUY it anymore.

I don't have a problem with a skill cap per se. I have an issue that the current skill system wasn't originally designed for a skill cap and the skill system is woefully under-documented.

Character creation and development right now is needlessly complex and aggravating right now.

To spend the skill points of your character effectively you need to do the following:

1) Figure out what ship you want to pilot when you hit Admiral.

2) Figure out the staff requirements of that ship in terms of officers.

3) Figure out what skills those officers will have at their disposal.

4) Figure out what types of weapons and equipment you will arm the ship with.

Once you know the types of weapons and abilities you need in the endgame you can design your character around the relevant skills. Where it gets strange is bothering with specific Ship Types skill you will never use after you are promoted out of them and the various types of weapons that are relatively balanced around each other save for various secondary effects.

It's possible that some players might choose to specialize in a smaller ship, but there's very little incentive to do so relative to the other ships usually.

It's worth pointing out that it's not necessary to max out skills to provide effective bonuses. The only reason to max out skills is to gain the ability to train skills to your BO. The way the ship crews are set up you will only need one space skill and however many ground skills of your department.

Between STO and CO it almost sounds like the business model is "Make a horribly dense and overly complex character development system so players will be forced to purchase respecs with cash or grind endlessly for sub fees."

Tomorrow is the Head start, I'll give the game two more days before I decide if it's worth the long term investment. Truthfully I was looking for a game that I could play between now and the Old Republic and to prevent burnout on City of Heroes before Going Rogue release but I'm beginning to wonder if it's worth the hassle anymore. I'm beginning to have doubts that STO and Cryptic will last the 17 months required to make back the lifetime fee.

Posted: Jan 29th 2010 8:35AM DJSlater said

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It's not the fact they implimented a cap, or even the fact that they didn't do it until a week before closed beta was about to end. It is the fact that it went from endless possbilities to almost no possibilities of how you were going to train your skills. Allot of people, like myself, were planning on going slowly, learning and playing with the different ship classes and skills. Now if you do that you will be penalized later on for doing so. There is barely enough SP's to get to the Admiral tier now, If you spend any excess in lower Ranks, you will have none left to spend when you get to Admiral.

I have no problem with the cap being there, I understand it completly, I just think they need to rework the numbers. Either increase the cap some or reduce the costs of the skills at each Rank to train skills, so we can have more choices in what we train.

Posted: Jan 29th 2010 8:56AM Snichy said

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lol I just feel sorry for Kyle Horner - he creates an honest and sensible article about a relevent albeit emotive aspect of the current game development, talks a lot of sense and makes some good points, some of which I agree with and some not and all he gets in response are insults, accusations and flames by people who just cruise the website looking for any reference to STO for an excuse to criticise the game and its developer.

So sad.

I have no opinion on the skillcap decision yet as Im going to see how it pans out later in the game. A lot of people make some good arguments for and against it but really there is no excuse to be disrespectful to others offering their opinions.

Posted: Jan 29th 2010 10:47AM (Unverified) said

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i love massively and have been checking this website for info since i found the site. That beeing said, i am very disapointed in this article. they take away skill cap, and change no other game mechanic, this breaks the game and no one cares? this article sais its no big deal? every other game does it??

the reason game companies can release sub par/broken games and get away with it is because no one is keeping them honest, fanboys buy the game anyway, direct download doesnt give refund, and i guess sites like this dont know the difference between right and wrong.

maybe the skill cap is a good thing - if they fix the skills to go with the new cap.


i really hate to blame anyone but cryptic or atari but this is a outrage of a article from a "professional" site. Tell people the truth and lets keep companies honest.

maybe make a article about the hundreds of people who bought a product as advertised and now cannot refund it because of direct download, tell people about the other cryptic games and how they are sinking, how CO was just a money grab... like STO feels like to so many.

Posted: Jan 29th 2010 1:37PM (Unverified) said

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Celestian -try to stop sounding like a fanboi.

Posted: Jan 29th 2010 9:53PM (Unverified) said

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I agree, as stated in the epic thread you speak of, that it's natural to presume that cap's are somehow a required mechanic. Every other MMO being your bar means that you will always expect status quo, however. The upset is two fold

1) Why did they change a mechanic after 2 years of development only 1 week before release?

2) Why after 2 years of developing said mechanic did you suddenly decide that you couldn't make it work, and put a cap on a system that numerically, and logistically will not function in a cap system?

I appreciate, and concede that WoW in space is a playable game. I do find it disappointing when a company simply changes their mechanics, and meagerly explains that "'cause every other MMO does it, it's ok". But, more to the point, I'd at least like a game that is designed for a cap, ala WoW, et al.


Using your comparison, however, let's debate one point in your logic:

You said (RE: Eve:OL) "The huge time requirement is a skill cap all its own..."

The point, and purpose of the design is the reason for the disappointment the change was made.

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Cryptic:...Were a player to invest the minimum-required skill points to reach Admiral, he'd be about half-developed in terms of a maxed character, though in terms of time it'd take significantly longer to completely max out each available skill.
(sounds a lot like the mechanics for Eve "takes a long time" eh?)

SOURCE:
http://www.warcry.com/news/view/94807-Star-Trek-Online-Player-Progression-Explained
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dudewhat: Once you have maxed out your character completely how will progression work? Is there a[n] endgame for Star Trek Online? If so how will progression work once you have reached the endgame?

Cryptic:The additional skills don’t necessarily make you more powerful on a linear scale; it’s more about increasing your options and flexibility within the game

SOURCE:
http://www.startrekonline.com/node/453
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Does it mean I won't play? Heck no. I bought a lifetime sub, and after all this, still decided to keep it. Why? Because I think, eventually, the game will be fun. The problem will, as you will discover, once you get to Rear Admiral grade 5 (or 10, depending on whether they support level 45, or 50...) realize that you can only have 1 full spec skill out of 19 skill possibles in any given class.

Again. Design, and mechanics. How many talents are you choosing from in a given tree in WoW? 6? 2 major per 3 skill trees? Each class in STO /is/ the tree. Eng/Sci/Tac, and sub skill per tree is 19, so 19x3=57 possible of which you can have 2.

Doesn't add up, does it?

Posted: Feb 2nd 2010 10:45AM (Unverified) said

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I don't have enough thumbs to point upwards for this post.
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Posted: Jan 29th 2010 11:45PM (Unverified) said

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Massively why do you guys always protect every thing crpytic does? On top of that why are you articles always a "My way of thinking is better then you're way of thinking?" You attacked people who where against micro-transactions in CO, you attacked people who did not want STO to be nothing but pew pew. Really what is you're problem?

Posted: Feb 6th 2010 10:16PM (Unverified) said

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Absolutely everything said in the article is true. While the timing may have been an issue, I fail to see why this is a major expectation. In fact, before they made the announcement I was completely under the impression that there would be a skill cap, and when they made the announcement I was like "this is news?" From the very beginning they described the skill tree as an upside-down triangle - you'd have a very broad focus at the top, and then become very refined at the bottom.

Most of this argument is made by people who ... want to make an argument! It neither hurts the game nor its progression.

As to the Champions links. Seriously? There were level capped players within what, five days of the game and yet "OMG we can't get level cap because of lack of content!" Perhaps the suckage is on your side of the house. Sorry, just the way it is.

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