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Reader Comments (11)

Posted: Jan 17th 2010 8:11PM clerkenwell said

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Interesting read, as always.

On an unrelated note, are Gneezy and Rustichini the coolest names ever?

Posted: Jan 17th 2010 10:10PM DrewIW said

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We really need a column on the lag and node deaths. The game is unplayable now.

Posted: Jan 18th 2010 12:55AM SgtBaker said

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You stuck in 49-u too then, eh? Annoying as hell.
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Posted: Jan 18th 2010 12:09AM Cinnamoon said

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Doesn't this seem a little obvious? This is like corporate management 101: how to convince people they're part of the TEAM. Yes: individuals operate in markets to their own self-interest. Groups of individuals (guilds, companies, families, communes) operate in markets to their *group* self-interest. When an individual in the group treats other individuals in the group as if they were instead members of the outgroup (and subject to neutral/fair/cold market rules rather than the preferential treatment they expect by virtue of their social links) then yes, those social links wither. That's how people work, and it's certainly nothing to do with EVE. You don't charge your dad for a beer -- you'd lose faction with dad! :) (Of course, you could argue that there's not a *functional* difference between charging each other for a beer, and rotating who picks up the tab. It's not a betrayal of a social contract; it's the commission of a social taboo. Don't mix business and pleasure. No politics or religion at the dinner table. And so on.)

But the tone of this article seems to suggest that mercenary mercantile groups are morally inferior (or at an ostensible disadvantage to) those groups which organize socially, and *that* I'd argue with. There are plenty of social groups that look out for each other and have evil in spades -- how about the KKK? Or, since we're talking about EVE here: what about a profit-driven EVE bank which issues cheap loans to new players to help them get started? These are murky waters that really can't be cleansed so easily.

Posted: Jan 18th 2010 12:19AM Cinnamoon said

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As an addendum: there are also examples of switching from a social to a market model that are simply better for everyone involved. An impoverished person who has for years had to rely on charity via the "social contract" will be very happy to dig out of poverty and return as a full actor in the market on her own terms. Adults who are forced to move back in with mom and dad will pay rent, not because they must, but to assuage their feelings of guilt over the imposition. Both of those have clear parallels in EVE and other games. Again it seems the professors' thesis is simply overly broad and simplistic.
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Posted: Jan 18th 2010 4:31AM (Unverified) said

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Excellent article.

I hadn't thought of this before but it is true.

To get anywhere in Eve you need to work with others - which involves forming very trusting relationships - but you also need to be aware of the free market world you are in, and how ruthless that is.

Most 0.0 alliances have rules about not charging more than a certain amount for items on the market, with shame and possible fines for those who charge 'too much'. But no one cares if you manipulate someone else's market as long as it doesn't affect the alliance.

Posted: Jan 18th 2010 5:33AM Graill440 said

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The article by the educator was artificial and created for their own end needs. Simplistic, (as some have called the report) and assuming in nearly everything it covers. The article makes bold statements of ONE persons interpretation of what they see as reality in these situations. Something really bad had to happen to this educator to make them think they way they currently do.

The educator assumes nearly everyone is like this, thinks like this, and that the social situations and business situations will lead to the educators conclusion, rubbish.

The only conclusion one can come to is that people, when ungoverned, and when they have no sense of consequence moraly or financially will become what we see in EVE, feeding upon themselves, slowly dying. Any situation artificialy created to "see what would happen" or "to prove a point" invalidates itself before it has been made.

Posted: Jan 18th 2010 5:39AM (Unverified) said

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So if we take your comment about eve slowly dying then the peak concurrent users should be going down instead of up yes yes?

Inconsistency there :S.
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Posted: Jan 18th 2010 9:57AM pcgneurotic said

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I like the bit in the abstract where you said "...what can happen when we inadvertently cross the line from an implied social contract to a market-based business one." It reminds me of my mate who went skiing in Slovakia a few years a go. He started chatting to this girl in a bar there one night, and after a few drinks, when he thought there was a spark of mutual attraction glowing in the air, her pimp appeared to make things 'official'...

Oh, we did laugh. He still has a scar from those consequences.

Posted: Jan 18th 2010 11:56AM (Unverified) said

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You can have all the ISK in the universe, but reputation is the true currency of EVE. You can't get anything done without at least a bit of reputation, for the simple reason no-one will trust you. And if you build up a lot of reputation and then do something which makes you lose all of it, it's extremely hard to regain it. You can grind missions or fly to an asteroid belt to get some more ISK. But you can't grind or mine your reputation with other players.

Posted: Jan 18th 2010 1:50PM Kalex716 said

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Interesting read.

It all comes down to an individuals personality and how well he is able to relate to others.

Just think about your favorite types of action/adventure/sci-fi movies and think about the scene where a character more or less "knows a guy".

So the character or band of characters goes to the dubious location where "the guy" is and the scene where the guy looks at the lead character and appears somewhat apprehensive about it all, but knows he "owes a favor" regardless. Sometimes the relationship appears more genuine in some movies, while it appears much more loose and challenging in others. Think about how your friends and colleagues in eve match up to these fictional pretenses and you usually concede it to 'all part of the fun'.

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