Chasing carrots, and why we do it

The only games I've greatly enjoyed these past few years are those that don't force you to grind, like Mass Effect or Dragon Age.
I won't pretend to understand those who like to spend their time killing X rats to gain Y levels or Z "gear", but I respect their wishes. As for me, I just want to get to the next area of the game so I can explore it, and if I don't grind, I'm stuck.

I have high hopes that SW:TOR will be THE MMO for people like me, who just want to see a great story unfold in a more interactive way than, let's say... a regular movie. Preferably with several other people by my side, instead of some idiotic AI who likes to get stuck on doors or attack the wrong enemy. We'll see...

A grind, at least for me, has always been more of a means to an end, as opposed to what you spend the majority of time doing. For example, I have no issues grinding materials in WoW, because those get used for flasks and enchants and whatnot for our upcoming ICC raids. In a game like Aion, grinding mobs felt like it was a precursor to grinding other players out at max level, and grinding as a means to grind more didn't seam that enjoyable.

Of course, one could argue that killing the same boss multiple times is "grinding," but that's more one's own definition of the term. I'm happy as long as there are good people to play with when I log in each day.

I think grind is grind, no matter how you dress it up. Even if you had 20 grind quests that were all completely fresh and enjoyable, you'd still start tiring of them after a while. That's just nature - repetition is anathema.

The grind is why I quit playing mmo's. I'm still a fan of the concept of an mmo, but am holding out until one breaks the mold. Hopefully there will be one where the journey from level 1-max is enjoyable and the endgame isn't repetitive. The wow-effect of quest leveling in mmo's is just as grindy as killing mobs over and over ala leveling in FFXI.

I want a mmo where if I had a chance to be max level I would say no because the leveling experience is too much fun. Not dread it and keep saying, "Damn I wish I was level XX."

Even sandbox MMOs have some sort of grind, but to me it feels more rewarding. Like you've really earned what you've done rather than just leveled up for it.
I've for a few years now, have given up on theme park mmos. The grind just isn't fun anymore. It was, years ago, but after a few years it gets old. I even have tried a few while waiting on particular sandbox games, but they rarely hold my interest past lvl 10.

Once we start talking about what's enjoyable, pleasurable and fun, we're going to end up venturing into the land of Koster and Lazarro's various theories of fun: hard fun, easy fun, visceral, social, etc.

While we do not have to treat them as the final word on all fun classification, both theories imply that there is more than one definition of "fun" for various people. So assuming someone has tricked themselves into thinking it's not that bad is looking at it from one's own perspective who thinks the grind is bad.

Personally, I've always liked grinding mobs in a game that gives a decent xp reward for each killed, and has smooth-flowing combat animations that are fun to watch. It's meditative, I get an excuse to listen to music (I need silence when working hard, but the half-attention from grinding is just great for musical accompaniment), it fulfills an "easy fun" need to gain a calm relaxation feeling, and sometimes immersion as the character being played, and it tickles some kind of primitive joy from seeing a progress bar shift upward.

The weird thing about MMOs is that people have somehow linked fiero and feelings of achievement not to actual intellectual challenge and "hard fun", but to actions that are more "easy fun," repetitive button presses and mowing down of mobs, etc. Or rather, fiero comes from reaching "the end," max level, raid-ready, but alas, there's a lot of repetitive button presses required to get there.

Perhaps this creates some cognitive dissonance for people who are really seeking meaningful intellectual/strategic challenge in order to experience the satisfaction of fiero, but end up stuck doing mindless grindy activities... hence all the hate for the perceived grind.

In that case, these people might be better off playing a strategy or tactical game, or the smaller niche MMOs that really do provide some forms of "hard fun" challenge (offhand: Eve Online, A Tale in the Desert, Puzzle Pirates all have aspects of gameplay that tests one's brains... but maybe because they are also MMOs, all of them also have the flaw of containing repetitive aspects that tests one's endurance too.)