| Mail |
You might also like: WoW Insider, Joystiq, and more

Reader Comments (79)

Posted: Dec 28th 2009 8:25PM karnisov said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
i don't know why anyone gets taken in by "investment" scams or "banks" anymore. they must be preying off brand new players or something.

Posted: Dec 28th 2009 8:27PM (Unverified) said

  • Half a heart
  • Report
Yet another shining example of why not to play EVE. Ever. This game attracts some good people, yes, but the lawlessness and anonymity granted by the internet allows for the most appalling behavior in any MMO that I've ever seen. Or almost any game for that matter. People routinely cheat, bully, steal, scam and outright destroy other people's gameplay for no better reason than they can. It's a sharp reminder that the law of the jungle still rules the day in some people's minds.

My personal favorite is people who claim that "It's just a game." My response to that is that nowhere are your true motivations and values more apparent than in the games you play, especially when nobody is watching (or in this case, when many are but have no idea who you are and consequences are abrogated by such circumstances.

The actions of this player are despicable but are largely reflective of the game at large: it's a playground for bullies and thieves. The fact that he announced this on Christmas sealed the motivations by the by: he did it with the express purpose of ruining the game for others and then twisting the knife in the wound.

Posted: Dec 28th 2009 8:37PM (Unverified) said

  • 2.5 hearts
  • Report
I disagree, and quite strongly.

Whilst I've not played EVE, I have respect for CCP and how they've shaped EVE. They have created a world that's true, not one that's nice. Almost every MMO is basically handed to you on a silver platter: You die, nothing is lost. You never find yourself below no currency (i.e. no actual debt) and so forth.

EVE is brutal, just like real business. Companies can rise and fall overnight, and that's how EVE appears to work. If people are 'stupid' enough to fall for your scam, well, it's their problem. CCP rarely get involved because it's easy to cheat the system, and they could be taking ISK that belongs to someone else. In business (and often life) you can't just stomp your feet and your money is back. You have to make conscious, educated decisions - It's what EVE is about.Bullies and Thieves do get to do well in EVE, but that's no different to real life. You go into EVE knowing full well that everything can be lost, and if it happens, then you've little right to complain.

Kudos to the guy who pulled it off. He never exploited or cheated, he simply played the system for what it is.
Reply

Posted: Dec 28th 2009 8:52PM Laephis said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
Yet another shining example of why EVE is more interesting than every other MMO out there. Instead of fighting Scripted Boss Battle #362, players have the ability to make themselves the villains if they so choose. And you don't even have to play the game to reap the rewards of EVE's freedom and flexibility, as you can read about the latest story from the safety of your own basement. The player-created history of EVE is a million times more compelling than the developer-created lore in other games.

Also, attempting to make moral judgments on other players based on the game only reveals your own shallowness and lack of insight. Do you also heap large amounts of hate and condemnation on the person who killed you in Modern Warfare 2. "It's just a game..." So obviously simple, and yet somehow you dismiss it because it doesn't suit your narrow idea of how a game should be played. Just as people aren't murderers because they blew you up with a rocket launcher in Counter Strike, people aren't evil because they scammed you in EVE. Next time, play smarter. I know I will...
Reply

Posted: Dec 28th 2009 9:40PM Dblade said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
It's not so bad as that. No one forced anyone to invest with curzon, and anyone who looked intently could have seen there was no substance to the offer. It's just that you simply cannot trust anyone you don't know well, and even then keep an eye on your corp permissions.

EVE is odd in that the players can be helpful to a point, but in the next breath do gameplay actions that can ruin you, or become incredibly callous.
Reply

Posted: Dec 29th 2009 10:24AM aurickle said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I agree with jslim419. Any society that lasts any amount of time at all in the real world has laws, and one of the first laws created has to do with theft. Eve may be the "wild west" of space, but even the old west had laws and enforcement when you came into town.

As for the "it's only a game" argument, that money didn't magically appear in player bank accounts. It was earned -- often through a lot of very tedious repetition. When you steal from someone in-game like this, you are effectively stealing their time.

Games are supposed to be fun. That's why we play. But when one person's fun comes from the destruction of multiple other people's fun, that is a bad thing for any game that doesn't want to spend its lifetime in niche status. Sooner or later the wolves have driven off all the sheep, and all that's left is other wolves.
Reply

Posted: Dec 29th 2009 11:23AM ultimateq said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
It's a sandbox game. The authority is for the player's to handle. If you want authority, you need to be the enforcer. Since players are not there to enforce, scams run wild.
Reply

Posted: Dec 31st 2009 1:07PM Mode7James said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Look up the youtube video of that bratty kid whose mom deleted his WOW account LOL.

I can relate to the loss of ISK (I've had many expensive ships go down in flames), but that's the joy of EVE. It all flows into the same stream. Like in the real world, wealth isn't finite, those that lost it can create more.
Reply

Posted: Jan 2nd 2010 7:13AM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
i could not agree more.
However, I have played EVE and enjoyed it quite a lot.

I just cannot get this: Why do they always have to portray the possibilities and "freedom" of EVE by showcasing scams, jackassery and exploit of game mechanics and all that?

I will give you the TL;DR and quite common description of what this guy did, what happens all the time in EVE:
Bored player robbed the corp hangar before he quit or changed corp.


EVE is a good game, it has its strengths and weaknesses. But what truly is amazing is the ability of CCP, the press and the fanbase to make such a fuss about the most idiotic bullshit that happens in EVE and say "and this is what makes EVE great".
Reply

Posted: Jan 13th 2010 10:01AM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
While your theories about morality as it pertains to internet pixels are very interesting, eve just doesn't work like that.

Whether between players or alliances, eve is about competition. The goal is to get ahead, and the only way to do that is at the expense of those you pass on the way.

Tell me: If a scammer who steals billions of isk is morally bankrupt, what about an alliance leader (pick one at random) who starts a war and seizes or destroys enemy assets worth hundreds of billions? Will you assert that he has the ethics of a genocidal dictator?

Conflict on all scales is the soul of eve. Between Curzon and this alliance leader, we have two people playing the game in a legitimate manner. Both take and/or destroy other people's assets, both are better off for it, the same as any other player.

You might say that the difference is betrayal of trust, but again: Eve doesn't work like that. You may notice that no eve players are here crying about their losses or accusing Curzon of being a horrible, horrible person. Is it more likely that we are all sociopaths, or that we are normal people who simply understand that by playing eve we opt in to a vicious, hypercompetitive system?

In eve, the stakes are astronomical and always represent a massive investment of labor. To cope with the fact that sooner or later everybody loses, the eve community has cultivated to a fine art the ability to not take itself too seriously. I recommend following their example when discussing game events, rather than passing moral judgments.
Reply

Posted: Dec 28th 2009 9:02PM J Brad Hicks said

  • Half a heart
  • Report
Having played EVE Online for a month and a half before making up my mind, I'm not surprised that EVE players rip each other off with scams all day and night: it's something to do. The actual game is dull as dishwater.

Posted: Dec 28th 2009 9:23PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I'd have to agree. I love, no, adore the idea of the game. The player-generated history. The sandbox mentality. Being the villian, or the hero. But the game itself is just SO sleepy.
Reply

Posted: Dec 29th 2009 12:06AM SgtBaker said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
Well, it's a sandbox - you make it into what it is.

It's also a very PvP oriented sanbox - tell me, how much PvP did you do? Did you camp gates? Do some frig 1vs1's? Did you take over someones space?

Sandboxes are also social places - did you join a corp? alliance?

No. I bet you stayed all alone in 1.0 and mined and ran missions all day long. In that case -You were doing it wrong. And yeah EVE is really dull game.

People who don't "get" EVE somehow have this notion that the game engine should spawn fun amusement park rides for them, and tell them where to go next. EVE doesn't - it's not what the game is about at all.
Reply

Posted: Dec 29th 2009 10:47AM breezer said

  • 1 heart
  • Report
Define "Sandbox"


I've said this before but... for the life of me, I can't see any difference between "Sandbox" and "Content-less"

Take all the quests and instances out of WoW, you have a sandbox.

I don't hate EVE, but I think it does a lot of things poorly (like the absolutely ridiculous, archaic "controls"). One of the things I think it does right though, is allowing the lawless aspect. If nothing else, it's a distinct, interesting feature.
Reply

Posted: Jan 2nd 2010 7:42PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I find it interesting that you claim that EVE is dull... Yes, at points it is quite dull, and that's why I let my subscription run out now that my pocket change is tight... It's this sort of real player interaction and the off and on engaging PVP that draw players like me in, but the thing that keeps most hardcore EVEers playing is this remarkable "Player-driven" nature of the game's story. I, however, understand that this isn't enough for people such as InfamousBrad here, who prefer games with vastly superior gameplay against EVE's mindgames and confidence schemes.

Posted: Dec 28th 2009 9:54PM (Unverified) said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
This is why I really enjoy EvE.

Yes, it's cutthroat. Yes it's cruel. Yes, it's downright evil.

And in every respect it mimics the real world (albeit in a really cool sci-fi universe).

The wonderful thing about games, really good games, is that they let us explore facets of our lives that we'd otherwise never be able to. If I tried to pull off a scam like this IRL, I'd be pursued by law enforcement, most likely caught, and spend years in jail while my "victims" would most likely never recover what they'd lost. Real life has long ranging consequences that preclude exploration.

In EvE, I can engineer a monumental scam, execute it, and either succeed or fail with no RL consequences. I can explore an ethical quandary with actual consequence, while still knowing that I haven't actually ruined a RL life (though I may well have put a serious dent in a virtual citizen's pocketbook). Police officers will not come knocking on my door. Victims are free to pursue their own forms of revenge.

Folks who enter the sandbox expecting to have an I-Win button (or god-like developers protecting them from their own stupidity) shouldn't play EvE. In the real world we have government and law to insure that we don't do anything truly stupid (and are taken care of if we still manage to). EvE lets players experiment with an endless array of "what if" scenarios. We can experience both the thrill of the predator and the anguish of the prey, and tomorrow morning we'll still have our real lives intact.

It's a game, but it gives us a chance to know how we'd deal with the best and worst of real life.

That's what great games do.


Posted: Dec 29th 2009 4:43AM Graill440 said

  • 1 heart
  • Report
EVE doesnt mimick the real world one iota. In EVE there is no consequence unlike the for actions, the lord of the flies lifestyle is slowly killing this small niche game, word of mouth keeps it small, the devs will insure the game dies a slow insignificant death in a few years unless things change. Nearly 5 years and what growth does EVE show? Certainly nothing worth mentioning.

However, this incident along with many others is another shining example of real life being used as a tool to commit real world fraud in a game. Courts will eventually see the profit in prosecuting players and companies like this. Go ahead, i dare you to say it wont happen.

I Heard some Bernie character was once an EVE subscriber, though this may just be rumor.

Have a happy new year!!!
Reply

Posted: Dec 29th 2009 5:14AM HackJack said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
"EVE doesnt mimick the real world one iota. In EVE there is no consequence unlike the for actions"

There I got a hunch you're not going to actually demonstrate something but simply spew out poorly thought ideas.

">>>Courts>profit
Reply

Posted: Dec 29th 2009 6:05AM (Unverified) said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
"In EVE there is no consequence unlike the for actions, the lord of the flies lifestyle is slowly killing this small niche game, word of mouth keeps it small, the devs will insure the game dies a slow insignificant death in a few years unless things change. Nearly 5 years and what growth does EVE show? Certainly nothing worth mentioning."

EVE is growing not dying. They just recently (Dec. 7th) set a new concurrent record for the number of players on the server at one time, 54,181. This summer they surpassed the 300,000 subscriber mark. That also means that it matched or surpassed the number of subscribers that WAR had around that time.
Reply

Posted: Dec 30th 2009 10:14PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Err, guys, Graill is trolling, and pretty obviously too, to accuse the game with the longest and steadiest record of growth in the history of the MMORPG genre of showing "nothing worth mentioning" in terms of growth.
Reply

Featured Stories

WRUP: Lucky Korea

Posted on Nov 22nd 2014 10:00AM

Engadget

Engadget

Joystiq

Joystiq

WoW Insider

WoW

TUAW

TUAW