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Reader Comments (19)

Posted: Dec 7th 2009 11:15AM CCon99 said

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I read that the original creator of the Foxbat character loathes what Cryptic did to Foxbat and his other creations.

Posted: Dec 7th 2009 11:24AM Daverator said

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Cryptic has given me mixed signals.
CoH I gave a try a while back (release) and while interesting, it was flawed and I gave up on it

Champions, innately with the character system and depth of customization (in appearance and abilities) provides a platform for great things. Both in the terms of role playing, and in the terms of min maxers.

However, its day1 patch, numerous number of bugs on release, glaring content gaps, unfinished crafting system, and complete and utter lack of anything to do when you do cap your character gave the feeling that the game was rushed.

However again, in 3 months they have managed to have 1 event, add a new powerset, add a new end dungeon that is at least somewhat interesting, and streamline the other end dungeons to be playable. Also many of the very obviously overpowered abilities have been brought in line.

However again (again), crafting still feels like an afterthought, there are still powers that simply don't do what they describe, or simply don't actually bother describing what they do (in detail).

The team behind it has shown it can work in great speed, I just hope that it will continue, another few months of additional content and bug fixing at this rate should transform Champions into a ready for the masses MMO, that said, since it has already launched, they have already had (and lost) their chance with many of the masses.

Posted: Dec 7th 2009 11:51AM (Unverified) said

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What this game needs is devs that don't think Foxbat is funny, or a good idea. The game is chock full of players trying to create toons that reflect the darker tone of modern comics and it is stuck in a bad 4 color parody. Truly a weird game to play as a result, because the tone is constantly clashing. I imagine all these tormented, trenchcoat clad vigilantes fighting a guy that shoots pingpong balls and ... it's a bit sad, really.

What this game needs even more is a Nemesis system that isn't the same missions with almost identical, partially-voiced dialogue. I can build a new Nemesis? great. They do the exact same things my old nemesis did? Lame.

Oh, and powers that actually work would be nice.

Posted: Dec 7th 2009 11:51AM (Unverified) said

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I feel sad when I think about CO. Of all the first-day releases I picked up, in the time of Fallen Earth and Aion, it was the only one I actually subscribed to a second month of service with.

But in the past few weeks, I have let it lapse, because my gaming buddies haven't been logging in at all, and no one brings up powers, or costumes, or anything in casual conversation anymore. It is just so easily forgotten.

Posted: Dec 7th 2009 12:31PM (Unverified) said

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Foxbat while an interesting character should really just be an optional villain story line. As discussed above, not every player likes utter silliness in their characters journey. For some, it could be a clever and fun adventure. For others, it feels like a big joke being played on them. The Riddler and Joker are "funny" but seriously dangerous at the same time. Foxbat is just a goof.

CO feels left and right like a jumble of various tired systems from other MMOs. None very thought out and always like they are playing catch-up behind the better designed MMOs. Ultimately a superhero game should be story driven and not a few hundred missions strung together with little semblance of a coherent character story. There are no real choices or moral decisions in a game based on a world of beautiful art and creative serial story lines. Soulless and I am not sure there is a fix for it.

I hope DCU is better but I fear the only company that could do a superhero game justice is Bioware.

Posted: Dec 7th 2009 12:31PM DrDvorak said

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JP - I like how you just decided to throw in a whole extra line of ad hominem attack to vent your nerd rage on.. (It's the "YOU CLEARLY AREN'T ACTUALLY PLAYING THIS ARTICLE IS A FRAUD" bit, if you're confused.)

Do you employ this tactic in real life, as well? Way to make the world a better place, cap'n!

Moving on... does CO have problems? Absolutely. Powers are still being balanced, and folks don't like to get hit by the nerf bat. The population is clearly not where cryptic hoped it would be at. And I'm really not a fan of Lemuria.

Is it anywhere near as bad as folks make it out to be? No, not even close. The game is actually fun, without any of the stupid grinding or work that "real" MMOs require. Fire it up, do some missions, blow up some dudes, log off.

Additionally the developers are adding content (one seasonal event down, another on the test server, new pvp map, new power set, new instance) at a pretty fast clip. All the above in 3 months since launch. Not bad, though some of the pieces of the game clearly needed more polish before they launched. I sincerely hope they keep this pace up.

That all said, many folks are just looking for an excuse to act like a jerk on the internet, and the mistakes that Cryptic have made have clearly given some folks the excuse they need to do so. If you don't like the game, don't play it. Ranting doesn't help anyone.

Posted: Dec 7th 2009 12:55PM willflynne said

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This actually has some merit, especially if you've got some familiarity with the Champions universe.

I played the pen-and-paper game in college with some friends, and while we used a different universe, I always loved reading about the characters that the creators came up with. Foxbat was always a favorite, just because he was a bit of an oddball and sometimes you need a bit of fun to keep things from being overwhelming. Variety is the spice of life, after all.

One possibility came to me when I took a moment and re-read the Foxbat entry in one of my old sourcebooks. In the tactics section, it mentioned that if a hero defeated Foxbat, chances were pretty good that he'd latch on to that hero in one way or the other. Sometimes he'd leave messages at crimes, saying "Defender didn't stop me!" or he might go the opposite direction and start introducing himself as Foxbat, Defender's sidekick, or even as Foxbat Defender. Taking that and applying it to the Nemesis system for an event (April Fool's Day, ideally) could provide a lot of fun gameplay opportunities.

Posted: Dec 7th 2009 2:19PM Tizmah said

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JP--

I've been seeing all your comments lately, and you are always complaining about Champions Online. I remember there was a huge crusade against how bad Age of Conan was when it first launch by people who did nothing but complain about it every chance they got, even on forums that didn't apply to it.

You seem like the same type of person that just bashes Champions Online every chance he gets like hes on some rightful crusade. I think you just got a little butthurt that it was the utterly amazing MMORPG you expected it to be, and now you want to get revenge by just spouting off every impulsive thought that comes to your mind on what makes Champions bad. We could all do the same thing to your favorite MMO or game in general if you like because the internet is full of BS just like you :)

Posted: Dec 7th 2009 2:55PM Aganazer said

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He may be a real hot head on here, but most of the people I know like that are actually mellow and stable people in real life. Its strange what the internet can do. :)
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Posted: Dec 7th 2009 7:11PM MrGutts said

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Well I am a 6 month suber who loves to bash the hell out of CO because I felt I was ripped off, but didn't all day. Some of us refrain.

Well I just like to vent because of JackE and the way he runs the show HIS way and doesn't fess up to any short comings in interviews. Everything is not his fault, it's just everyone else is to blame for the problems all HIS games have had.

Hell I haven't even seen Mr Angry yet vent on this.
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Posted: Dec 7th 2009 5:01PM (Unverified) said

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I think this post was way too specific, and a little useless. :\ Foxbat is a funny character, but I agree with what most people are saying. Comics aren't 'silly'. Batman wasn't silly. Xmen wasn't silly. Joker is a perfect example of what they should be doing, and what they aren't doing. Foxbat is a character from a SATIRE or a parody of superheroes. He is funny, but not that fun to play with. The game is also in general way too bright in general. There's no darkness. The nemesis feel like more parody of superheroes, not just naturally dramatic blowhards, who actually are a serious danger to the world.

Posted: Dec 7th 2009 5:16PM (Unverified) said

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I agree, they should be looking to classic Joker stuff for inspiration.

http://www.yesbutnobutyes.com/archives/2007/03/top_15_unintent.html
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Posted: Dec 7th 2009 5:48PM Seraphina Brennan said

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My dear JP, it really sounds like you are the one being naive in this situation.

I don't think it would matter what I would say to your question, you will still obviously disagree with me on my opinion on Champions Online. You don't want to listen to anyone telling you that the game may have improved, or that the content problems are being worked on. You would just rather rail on the game and us as writers.

It's clear that you're willing to engage in attacking us directly (how many hours have you played, it's clear you don't know what you're talking about, etc.) but when someone else engages you on the same level, you get extremely angry about it. Is that really fair?

You hate Champions. That's cool, you have every right to not like the game. But Kyle and I have our rights as the two opinion columnists of the site to enjoy the game and continue to play it. It's a two way street.

~Sera

Posted: Dec 7th 2009 5:58PM deadborder said

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As a long-time fan of the Champions universe, I found the tone of the game to be a bit of an issue. The CU generally presents a mixture of Silver Age and modern sensiblilties, with a mixture of superhero improbibility and more relistic chracterisation and concequences. For the comics fan, Astro City would be a very, very apt comparison to the tone. Certainly its no place for the brooding, angst-ridden, emotionally crippled anti-heroes.

However, at the same time, I feel that Cryptic failed to use this universe well; they decided to play everything for pure camp and dumb pop culture refernces. As a result, the game felt just plain silly at the best of times, and the few moments of a more serious nature felt jarringly out of place which rather undercut their effectivness.

Hoever, in this respect, I felt that Cryptic's use of Foxbat was actually quite effective; he's meant to be all camp, all silly. The only problem is, he should stand out for it, not blend into the crowd.

Posted: Dec 7th 2009 7:08PM (Unverified) said

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Spot on. I think this is quite a good observation. While I quite enjoyed the cleverness of many of the gags and the inventiveness of the players in character creation, at the end of the day the game ultimately lacks heft. All that snark just isn't compelling over time.
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Posted: Dec 7th 2009 7:48PM Ergonomic Cat said

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I like Foxbat, but he's best used as a foil for serious darkness.

CO has some amazing parts, but the mission writing isn't it. The cloned giant brain control missions are a good example.

I invite you to read the following series, for a much better explanation:

http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?cat=188

Go to the "A Star is Born" posts.

Posted: Dec 7th 2009 8:00PM (Unverified) said

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The avatar customisation is undeniably awesome BUT there is a profound lack of player involvement, a serious lack of mission variety, wild inconsistency in mood/tone and a real lack of atmosphere. The gameworld is sterile, generic and for all intents and purposes dead. Given the choice Foxbat wouldn't be seen dead in this this dismal locale.

What Cryptic need is to develop some conviction in the theme and then go back to first princples on the gameworld to hopefully breathe some life, some fun and some variety into the stagnant sewer of a world they have atm.

Posted: Dec 7th 2009 9:08PM Its Utakata stupid said

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I think I may resub back to Champions and roll a boy, dress him up like girl in a frilly costume...just to get under JP's skin. :)

That being said, I too think CO has some serious issues...which I hope they'll be address; the game needs serious polish and quality finish amoung other things to make it a lot better. I'm not sure however, more Foxbat will do that. I can see how some can really like him...I can also see how he would drive others up the wall. So let's fix the game first...then expand on Foxbat's lore.

Posted: Dec 8th 2009 11:20AM (Unverified) said

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I am a COH convert who loves CO and I've stated that many times here. I know from 5 years of COH experience, years of WOW, countless betas and subs: nerfdom, content ups and downs, limitations and advances - these things naturally happen in MMO's. I believe that there is a HUGE amount of subjective critiquing that goes into not only this genre of MMO, but of Super Hero subject matter in general. Could Hulk kill Superman? Is Aquaman REALLY as deadly on land as in the water? These topics change depending on the fan, the writer, the studio and a thousand other variables. Some people think the Iron Man movie is the pinnacle of modern Hero storytelling. Others believe it's just a quick tongued - fanciful, drunkard's dream called 'Robert Downy Jr. in a plastic suit'.

When we get down to it, CO and really any other MMO is really a stage for our fantasies and dreams. If you aren't in some way RPing your hero than you're missing part of the fun. Case in point, I was TPing over Northern Canada and found a NPC stuck under two snowmobiles. No mission, no big yellow beacon just a dude freezing on the ice with a snowmobile on his chest. Even if this is part of a mission or contact I wasn't supposed to reach yet, it was a Super Hero moment. I got to save this poor bastard and he thanked me. A small moment when the game took on more than just a grind-date. It was all out passion and love of the classic Hero story and proof in my eyes that this MMO that has a lot of potential as long as the community continues to have these exchanges. Could a dude with a bad costume and a PingPing Gun REALLY change the game? I don't know, but I am going to have a blast finding out.

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