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Reader Comments (9)

Posted: Nov 29th 2009 4:30PM (Unverified) said

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I think this is going OTT personally. Losing a virtual item can be annoying, but you just contact a GM, tell the GM of the scam and 9/10 they'll do something to help, not bloody arrest the man for doing it. And so the UK police state just gets more and more prevalent.
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Posted: Nov 29th 2009 4:48PM Anatidae said

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Well, sure. But still. Account phishing - regardless what type of account - shoudl be illegal. Theft is theft. So today he steals someone's game account information. Tomorrow their bank information?

Plus, I have known people who had their accounts hacked and did get back anything. I would be curious on that 90% number of people scammed get their items back.

In fact, I just did a google search. There are TONS of pages regarding WoW account hacks and so far, with limited scanning, everyone who speaks from direct experience said that when they did get their account back, they typically lost all their gold and gear. There was a couple mentions where a character was deleted and the GMs un-deleted it, but still with empty pockets.

Besides, like I said, stealing is stealing - regardless of the medium.
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Posted: Nov 29th 2009 5:31PM Nadril said

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I agree that arrest seems like too much. I could maybe see giving someone a fine for account phishing but even then with the case of virtual goods like this they are able to be reimbursed without any real loss.

It just feels like it should be something that is handled within the game its self.
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Posted: Nov 29th 2009 6:27PM (Unverified) said

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If someone stole an Xbox out of your home that you had insured would you argue that they shouldn't be arrested? The fact that it's a leisure activity and the stolen items are replaceable shouldn't be the determining factor.

I support this if for no other reason than the deterrent effect.
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Posted: Nov 29th 2009 6:46PM (Unverified) said

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If the Xbox was insured I wouldn't really care, it'd be win:win, the burglar gets to feed his children and I get a new Xbox.
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Posted: Nov 29th 2009 6:54PM Nadril said

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What? You clearly misunderstood me with your attempt at trying to make a terrible comparison.

An xbox costs money to produce. Even if you got it back for free from the manufacturer it still costs them money to make it. A video game item or even account does not cost money. It takes time, yes, but unless you're going to embrace the third party monetary value of an item than they are more of less "worthless".

At any rate my point is is that your character and/or items can be reinbursed for no extra cost. It doesn't cost a company any extra to give you your scammed items back (they have GMs staffed if you get scammed or not) and in the end the "crime" really only sets back your playing time a good bit.

These sort of matters should be handled through in game means, not by involving the police or FBI which is ridiculous.
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Posted: Nov 29th 2009 7:51PM Anatidae said

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@Nadril

In my life time = money. And, as a simple google search will show, if you get scammed on your account it is not likely that you will get all your virtual goods back.

Also, the people taking your items - you do realize they are selling the gold for real-world money? In fact, you hard work would net someone real cash in their hands.

Besides, the world is becoming a virtual place. Ever play online poker? All those chips are virtual. Until you cash out, it isn't money. In fact, likely you use an ATM/Debit card - there are more virtual transactions. Some people have fraud protection on their credit cards. When that virtual money is spent, you are reimbursed - yet you were stolen from.

Again, theft is theft. Regardless of the medium. A person should be prosecuted to the same extent any thief would be. In the case of phishing, this is someone who could have stolen from hundreds of people - that is a lot of theft. Yeah, jail time is in order.
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Posted: Nov 29th 2009 9:08PM Ripper McGee said

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Keep in mind that stored financial information often comes with the account. As such, the thief may be able to purchase virtual goods with your information. That's theft and identity fraud. It's also incredibly damaging not only to you (victim) and potentially your credit, but also to the company due to charge backs. Following is a quote from Icarii, a Runes of Magic GM on their official boards regarding Frogster's 30 day hold on using legitimately purchased diamonds in the Auction House:

"OK, I will explain the 30 day "hold"...

Diamonds being allowed in the AH is something the players wanted but with that came many problems.

1. Diamond/gold sellers: They used this system to their advantage. Sure we are able to track everything but the damage they did on their own was staggering.
-Sellers would use stolen PayPal accounts (and credit cards, thats why the new CC option has a 30 day hold as well) and buy thousands of dollars in diamonds and then unload them to players. Some players knew what was going on and others were clueless.

PayPal would notify us of the "unauthorized" payments and then we would track everything linked to the illegal account. We banned everyone who got these diamonds or items from the sellers accounts. Since we couldn't just remove the "bad" items we were left with no choice but to ban.

2. Player charge backs:
Many players would do charge backs (kinda like the sellers lol) after they got their diamonds and use, gifted and unloaded every last one of them.
We would have to act the same way as we did with the diamond sellers.
Then there is those who play the game for 4 or 5 months and then quit, re roll, or w/e and they do a charge back.

All of this starts to hurt, not only our bank account but the players as well.
It is not our intention to "punish" legit players. It is nothing like that in the least. The current system gives us time to fix these issues and that is our GOAL.
This is no minor issue in our book . We are working on this and Runewaker is working on this."

So, as you can see, the issue can indeed be both far reaching and financially devastating. As such, I absolutely support law enforcement being involved, if necessary.

~Ripper
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Posted: Nov 29th 2009 10:38PM (Unverified) said

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@ Nadril:

I wasn't replying to you with the Xbox comparison. I was replying to Anonymous, on whose comment I clicked reply.

However, as for the time and money argument. It may not cost you money when your account is restored, but it costs the developer money. The time GMs spend restoring lost accounts is not spent on other things, forcing the developer to hire more GMs. This is analogous to the real life example of an Xbox, in which the insurance company loses the money.

And in case you are under the impression the amount of money spent is insignificant, check out the interview I'm linking. One of the designers from Everquest talks about the effect of RMT on developers, and one of the costs included was the customer service costs with restoring accounts that had been affected by fraud.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIJmVA_NlO0
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