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Reader Comments (53)

Posted: Nov 13th 2009 7:52AM karnisov said

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the mmo genre for the most part has been stagnant since day 1, because they are just graphical muds. its the same old mud stuff, grind rinse repeat. players are equally at fault alongside developers, because they are willing to pay money for the same old thing. well its nice that 10 years into mmos some players are finally waking up. maybe they'll be less free with the money and developers will have to start making good games.

Posted: Nov 13th 2009 8:24AM Dread said

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Like it or not, modern game development is $$ driven. Devs need to eat as well. So to finance their projects they need to get financing from these big publishing borg entities. The publishers want to see a return on their investment so they are loathe to see any real diversion away from the norm. Niche titles are hit and miss. Some go mega-huge and start a new genre - unfortunately most die in birth or not long after. So its in their best interests to lock projects down to the 'norm'.

The days of running your own game studio out of your parents garage/basement is sadly gone. Apart form the odd rare exception like your Mount and Blade and the like, modern games require huge budgets and development teams to be commercially successful and gain a big world wide audience.

Posted: Nov 13th 2009 8:41AM Atnor said

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Excellent article, I agree with a lot of it. It quite nicely echoes what a lot of gamers have been saying for quite awhile...

I still think there's a pretty big following of paying customers who arent caught up in the WoW craze, cut their MMO teeth elsewhere, and that are pretty disheartened by looking at the current crop of games coming out recently. We have money, please make something worth giving it to you please, kthx.

I personally have the feeling that there are a lot of dedicated, smart, innovative devs out there with some great, fresh ideas. But some other commenters above are correct, thats not all it takes anymore. We need some drive and some cash behind those ideas, and frankly, its safer to go the Alganon/clone route.

Posted: Nov 13th 2009 10:37AM (Unverified) said

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The problem is not the people that make the games not having new and interesting things to show us, its the people who bankroll new developement who have no conception of what an MMO could be. They know WoW because its all over the mainstream press and gets alot of non-gaming coverage. So they think. "That makes money, lets invest in things that do that"

The tiny differences (as I see them) in games like Aion, Runes of Magic, Alganon and all the rest give me the impression that the developers had to fight tooth and nail with the moneymen to get them included "WoW doesn't do that? Why bother then?"

Its about time Investors were forcibly educated about Virtual World Gaming and the potential it has. There are no limits to the worlds we can create in the virtual sphere, only those we put on ourselves.

Posted: Nov 13th 2009 11:06AM Kalex716 said

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Lots of great points in the article and in the comments. Theirs no point in making a game that looks, and feels, or bears resemblances to WoW but only with a fraction of the content before the players of question begin to start saying to themselves "this is boring, i really should just go back to wow where i know i can do x this and y that more".

One particular point I do want to add to the discussion is one that happens very very early in a games production cycle. The "money people" are infinitely more likely to grant the type of budget needed for a large scale MMO if you can depict how you're going to be more like the biggest MMO out there right now. It's not usually the creative people that want to rip on WoW so much as it is the money people who slowly stifle innovating (more of a gamble) concepts for more friendlier wow-ceptual features.

As ambitious features and stuff in development get more challenging, risky, and costly, they are much more prone to being cutt and watered down to the point where its logical to "just do what WoW did..."

Posted: Nov 13th 2009 3:07PM (Unverified) said

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Surely there is some point at which we will have seen enough derivative and unimaginative titles crash, burn and drag their parents down into bankruptcy, that the "money people" will finally think "hey, maybe we shouldn't bang our heads against that wall one more time, maybe we should try walking around it?"

Posted: Nov 13th 2009 5:30PM SkuzBukit said

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People ripping off WoW are making a fundemental mistake, because WoW was so highly derivative itself, a facsimilie of a facsimilie is always going to be hugely inferior.

My issue with WoW & anything made after it was released (bar a tiny number of exceptions) is that they borrow mechanics without really understanding "what they did there" WoW works so well because the developers knew exactly what the blueprint was & what they wanted to change, those following are only looking at the end result not where it came from & why.

For me the EQ/UO/AC era of MMO took a "Build a world first, then put a game in it" approach & WoW brought their Diablo gameplay in & built a world around it, WoW was built from the ground up as a solo player online game, any group or raid mechanics got bolted onto that.

Now the bulk of the existing MMO audience were brought into the genre by WoW, so it's their only point of reference, and what they think they want is more of the same, when they get it they cry wow clone, when they dont they cry & stamp their feet demanding to know why the new game doesn't do what WoW did, as the earlier poster pointed out, even going so far as to alter the new game to be more like WoW......it's a no-win situation that the gamers themselves are perpetuating & developers are allowing to happen.

Personally I want developers to go back to building worlds first, then I want them to learn the lessons that WoW teaches....polish being 1st, not making promises that you dont keep being 2nd, do not talk about the future until you are actually working on it & have it timetabled being 3rd......& I could go on but I won't, mostly it's common sense.

Posted: Nov 15th 2009 7:09PM (Unverified) said

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"WoW brought their Diablo gameplay in & built a world around it, WoW was built from the ground up as a solo player online game"

Surely if that were the case, WoW would have a lot more in common with Diablo in the way it scales between solo and group.

Diablo very much does not have the "holy trinity" of tank/heals/dps. Everyone is dps, everyone is expected to either avoid damage, handle it via life leech type mechanics, or suck down a lot of potions. Which means that it can quite easily scale content from solo to group - all it does is increase the health of the mobs, so in theory they take as long for the group to kill as they would for a solo player.

But WoW, on the other hand, very much follows the EQ model of group roles. There's an enormous difference between a tank + healer + 3 dps group, and a 5 dps group. Content scales from solo "kill it before it kills you" challenge to group challenges where a non-tank will find it impossible to survive attacks, and a group without a healer will find it impossible to defeat an enemy before it kills the tank.

There's a lot in WoW that was familiar from Diablo - but I think you're off-target in suggesting that it was built as a Diablo-style solo online game.
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Posted: Nov 13th 2009 9:55PM Marz said

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Skuz said: WoW was built from the ground up as a solo player online game, any group or raid mechanics got bolted onto that.
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I think it may have been the other way around. Wow really shines when it comes to its dungeons and raids. Everyone has to do their job absolutely correct or you wipe. If your CC lets a mob runaway from you and right into the boss's Aggro range; you wipe. If the hunter doesn't get that boss's minion trapped; you wipe. If the Tank doesn't get aggro, (Or loses it because your healer just did a big heal) you wipe.

I think wow is a great dungeon and raid game that seems to have been dumbed down over the years to make it easier for solo players.

Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 8:48PM (Unverified) said

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How many FPS games look like and play like Quake, or Doom for that matter.

You have a FP POV, normally showing the gun equipped and you run around and shoot the bad guys. You have some health, you normally have some ammo limit - its all very similar.

However there has been massive improvements to the game which are generally evolutionary and FPS has gone from Doom to Modern Warfare:2. I believe the same is going to happen to MMO's however MMO's are much harder and slower to churn out than others.

Posted: Nov 17th 2009 3:26PM (Unverified) said

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This article is a decent article. However, after reading just what Alganon is I have to admit I think this article is a bit misleading in making the claim that Alganon is a *wow-clone*. After looking over a few of the features that are to be offered in Alganon, I have come to the conclusion that Alganon make look like WoW in a *few* aspects, but I believe the similarity stops there. This article made no mention of the following features:
1) Studies
# Allows players who cannot play every day to advance their characters
# Allow characters to grow over time at the same rate as other players
# Provides an underlying system that allows casual gamers to compete with hardcore gamers
2) Consignment System
* Players can post requests for items to be made or found.
* Balances out material needs for those that may not wish to directly obtain those materials.
* Allows players to setup and participate in player-based "Item Quests" within the Consignment house.
* Gives players who only have a short time to play something to do. It is quick to hop on the Consignment house, pick an order to fill, and craft or gather those items.
3) Families
4) Four Core System
5) Deities and Crusades

I just think that everyone should just head on over and check out the website. I think the *cloning* comes from the belief that WoW is just too easy of an MMO. Grant it, these usually are spouted from the mouths of the Elite MMO Veterans of older MMOs such as Ultima Online, Everquest, Vanguard SoH, etc... Just because we other 10 million+ players don't enjoy 2-hour corpse-runs doesn't mean that we're wusses. It means that we want those 2-hour corpse-runs to be turned into something...well...er...fun.

I think that this article was a bit biased from the beginning. I think the author must *really* have a deep dislike for WoW, took a look at the UI (example being the overlay), and the klaxons started wailing. I had never even heard of Alganon until this article, but now I'm glad I have. They have some original ideas in their game and I wish them good luck. To all those that are doubting based on *this* article? I suggest you go have a look at Alganon's website. You might find something that tweaks your interest as well.

Posted: Nov 21st 2009 9:34AM Loki1 said

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@verenov -

You listed a lot of "allows" and "gives".

How do these almost insignificant details of accessibility, user-friendlyness and, frankly, humiliating player-babysitting change the fact that Alganon is a WoW-clone made accessible?

Posted: Dec 2nd 2009 9:35PM (Unverified) said

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The problem is that game developers are damned if they do, and damned if they dont.

I started playing MMORPG's about 6 or 7 years ago climbing on board with FFXI and then WoW. I retired from FFXI to play WoW and have now retired bored silly from WoW to play Aion (which I think is a fantastic combination of the best of WoW and FFXI).

For the first month of playing Aion, all I read in chat channels was things like: "WoW did it like this, why dont they make it the same".

I personally valued the differences (and they are many). WoW has been made progressively easier and more generic over time to appeal to a mass audience, Aion with its big penalties for death (hated by the first month players) challenges in ways that wow never did and was criticised for doing so.

Thankfully, most of the kids from WoW that came across to Aion first month have now gone so the community can hopefully challenge the developers to walk a new path. We dont want another WoW. We want a challenging game for people over the age of 15 with sensible IQ and reasonable gaming talent! That to me, would be an innovation in itself!

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