But we want to know what you think, faithful readers. Do you think WAR is doomed, or is this "restructuring" (along with the recent news of an unlimited free trial) part of a plan to ultimately save the game?
The Daily Grind: Is Warhammer Online doomed?
by Shawn Schuster 
on Nov 10th 2009 8:00AM
MMO industry, Opinion, The Daily Grind
56
But we want to know what you think, faithful readers. Do you think WAR is doomed, or is this "restructuring" (along with the recent news of an unlimited free trial) part of a plan to ultimately save the game?
Reader Comments (56)
Posted: Nov 10th 2009 1:56PM (Unverified) said
its almost like massivley want this game to fail as they are always the first to be negative and show bad press about this game i have a sub and like it ,gonna give AOC another go soon too
Posted: Nov 10th 2009 1:59PM Anatidae said
Economy is not an excuse at all! Actually, entertainment actually goes UP in a poor economy. Depressed people are looking for entertainment more than when they are not. Although sad, during the great depression it was a great time to be an entertainer with lots of audiences.
Box office sales have been a bit rocky, but that is more due to the huge increase in DVD rentals - and video games. Gaming has become the nations #1 entertainment past-time. But, WAR has to compete not only to other MMOs, but good games on consoles. Things like Rock Band are going to pull people away from WAR.
Box office sales have been a bit rocky, but that is more due to the huge increase in DVD rentals - and video games. Gaming has become the nations #1 entertainment past-time. But, WAR has to compete not only to other MMOs, but good games on consoles. Things like Rock Band are going to pull people away from WAR.
Posted: Nov 10th 2009 2:08PM (Unverified) said
Is Warhammer Online doomed? It's a rather loaded question that I feel can not be easily answered, as one can take a variety of stances and positions on the subject. None the less, I am happy to give my two cents, for what they are worth. Simply put, when WAR launched I was fairly excited, as I had long been (and still am) a fan of the Warhammer Books and Table-top, though in regards to the Pen and Paper version I have to say I enjoy watching others play as I am not a fan of PvP in any form.
Many have pointed out that Mythic/EA made the choice to attempt to emulate what Blizzard had done with Warcraft, i.e. making similar game mechanics, interface, content type, etc. Some were dejected by this; I was not. The idea of playing, in essence, a far more 'Dark' version of Warcraft, without the corny and cartoony nature was an appealing idea, and I longed to set out across the Old World as a Witchhunter, rapier and pistol in hand. Sadly, when the game lauched, I realized, as did many others, that Mythic/EA had become confused as to what kind of game they wanted to release.
Now, it has been fairly proven by the market, and other posts have made this observation as well, that the primary MMO market does NOT consist of PvP players; that is not to say anything negative about PvP players as I know and enjoy spending time with more than a few followers of the 'Tea-bag that corpse' army. However, the majority of MMO players enjoy massive amounts of PvE content, raid and more simplier fair. As such, it was devastating when I played WAR for the first time and learned that, amongst its other somewhat unpolished features, players where essentially strong armed into undertaking the games RvR/PvP content unless they wanted to miss large story elements or sections of particular zones. In that moment I knew I would never play WAR again, as being strong armed into doing something I had no desire to do while at the same time being asked to pay for such treatment was a thing that could not be forgiven. Since then I have returned to WoW and LotRO, but have stayed in touch with those gaming associates of mine who chose to stay with the game, and that number quickly fell to but a few.
I have heard and seen all the changes made to the game since my departure, and regretfully I can not say the game is in anywhere near a state that would garner my return or hard earned money. It is still, as it's core, a PvP centric game (even with the LotD add on), and in this market I stand with many who have no interest in such a title. Many have argued that if WAR was not a PvP centric game then it would be missing the point of the Warhammer Universe, and frankly I feel that is an near sighted stance. WAR could have had all the Empire vs Chaos, Dwarf vs Greenskins content as an 'added' feature, much like the Battlegrounds in WoW and PvP instanced zones in other titles without sacrificing the core PvE/Story experience. To close, until such a time as Mythic/EA truly restructures the game to be a PvE experiance with RvR on the side (seperate and instanced), their numbers will never grow to a point where they can make a decent profit and, in turn, poor some much needed revenue back into the game. If things continue as they are, then perhapes Warhammer Online has indeed seen it's last Sunrise.
Many have pointed out that Mythic/EA made the choice to attempt to emulate what Blizzard had done with Warcraft, i.e. making similar game mechanics, interface, content type, etc. Some were dejected by this; I was not. The idea of playing, in essence, a far more 'Dark' version of Warcraft, without the corny and cartoony nature was an appealing idea, and I longed to set out across the Old World as a Witchhunter, rapier and pistol in hand. Sadly, when the game lauched, I realized, as did many others, that Mythic/EA had become confused as to what kind of game they wanted to release.
Now, it has been fairly proven by the market, and other posts have made this observation as well, that the primary MMO market does NOT consist of PvP players; that is not to say anything negative about PvP players as I know and enjoy spending time with more than a few followers of the 'Tea-bag that corpse' army. However, the majority of MMO players enjoy massive amounts of PvE content, raid and more simplier fair. As such, it was devastating when I played WAR for the first time and learned that, amongst its other somewhat unpolished features, players where essentially strong armed into undertaking the games RvR/PvP content unless they wanted to miss large story elements or sections of particular zones. In that moment I knew I would never play WAR again, as being strong armed into doing something I had no desire to do while at the same time being asked to pay for such treatment was a thing that could not be forgiven. Since then I have returned to WoW and LotRO, but have stayed in touch with those gaming associates of mine who chose to stay with the game, and that number quickly fell to but a few.
I have heard and seen all the changes made to the game since my departure, and regretfully I can not say the game is in anywhere near a state that would garner my return or hard earned money. It is still, as it's core, a PvP centric game (even with the LotD add on), and in this market I stand with many who have no interest in such a title. Many have argued that if WAR was not a PvP centric game then it would be missing the point of the Warhammer Universe, and frankly I feel that is an near sighted stance. WAR could have had all the Empire vs Chaos, Dwarf vs Greenskins content as an 'added' feature, much like the Battlegrounds in WoW and PvP instanced zones in other titles without sacrificing the core PvE/Story experience. To close, until such a time as Mythic/EA truly restructures the game to be a PvE experiance with RvR on the side (seperate and instanced), their numbers will never grow to a point where they can make a decent profit and, in turn, poor some much needed revenue back into the game. If things continue as they are, then perhapes Warhammer Online has indeed seen it's last Sunrise.
Posted: Nov 10th 2009 11:06PM (Unverified) said
To be fair, Joey, I don't think it was ever any great secret that WAR was intended to be a PvP-centric game, and they _did_ manage to shift a healthy number of boxes - presumably to people who felt that this sounded like a fun thing to play.
The blame for the drop-off in subscriptions surely has to be down to execution, not to the concept.
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The blame for the drop-off in subscriptions surely has to be down to execution, not to the concept.
Posted: Nov 10th 2009 2:30PM (Unverified) said
"Even if WoW came out today, I don't think it would do as well as it has." You're correct. Because there are too many competitors out there making it difficult for new products to establish market share. But there will always be room for exceptional products. Such as... Dragon Age.
Posted: Nov 10th 2009 2:38PM Anatidae said
@Mark - You nailed it. There IS room for exceptional products. Also, to be clear, this does not mean exceptional budgets! Well executed games will sell very well.
The next big MMO will simply be one that is really fun. It won't matter if it is fantasy or sci-fi. But it will be fun enough that friends will tell their other friends and reviewers will give it a 9/10 or better. It will sell well, hit best sellers. Because so many people play it, it will suck in more non-gamers (just like WoW does) because people want to check out the hype.
Once you get the snowball rolling, it keeps going.
What do MMOs lack these days? Mostly - a sense of wonder. They are becoming too gamy in my opinion. I picked up Dragon Age thinking I would be bored in no time (I prefer online experiences) and I am totally hooked. And I realize it is because I keep wanting to see what is going to happen next. That is the same feeling I had from UO, EQ, DAoC, and WoW. I just wanted to see where the game went.
In the case of WAR, the areas seemed too much of the same. Not only graphically, but empty of players. I didn't feel a sense of wonder and adventure, I felt the need to rush through levels so I could raid the city. Then, when i finally could reach it, I found myself locked out because of a cap. Yuck.
Reply
The next big MMO will simply be one that is really fun. It won't matter if it is fantasy or sci-fi. But it will be fun enough that friends will tell their other friends and reviewers will give it a 9/10 or better. It will sell well, hit best sellers. Because so many people play it, it will suck in more non-gamers (just like WoW does) because people want to check out the hype.
Once you get the snowball rolling, it keeps going.
What do MMOs lack these days? Mostly - a sense of wonder. They are becoming too gamy in my opinion. I picked up Dragon Age thinking I would be bored in no time (I prefer online experiences) and I am totally hooked. And I realize it is because I keep wanting to see what is going to happen next. That is the same feeling I had from UO, EQ, DAoC, and WoW. I just wanted to see where the game went.
In the case of WAR, the areas seemed too much of the same. Not only graphically, but empty of players. I didn't feel a sense of wonder and adventure, I felt the need to rush through levels so I could raid the city. Then, when i finally could reach it, I found myself locked out because of a cap. Yuck.
Posted: Nov 10th 2009 2:35PM Cinnamoon said
It's the same article every day lately. No Warhammer isn't doomed. EA is still running UO and Camelot for crying out loud. A game doesn't need to be WoW to be a success, and it doesn't need a staff of hundreds, either.
Posted: Nov 10th 2009 2:43PM (Unverified) said
There comes a point where you have to stop being different for the sake of it and get on the same page as everyone else. WAR has been sat in the corner like a petulant child for far too long. WAR had a great chance because the Warhammer hobby has a large following but by making the game fiddly and awkward and adding in non consensual PvP they shot them selves in the face. The reason WoW is the giant killer is because it easy to pick up and hard to master. The same could be said of DDO, you can get by mashing buttons then you have to start thinking. WAR feels clunky as hell. The unlimited free trial is going on the right direction, but the look and feel of the game is still very clunky with quite high system requirements. Given most Tabletop gamers are already invested in a very expensive and time consuming hobby the idea of WAR is not appealing to casual players, of whom most are looking for a reskinned Baldur's Gate/Neverwinter Nights and now DAO is out (and even Torchlight) there isn't much room for niche Fantasy MMOs.
So yes I think WAR is doomed. Too much attitude and not enough fun.
So yes I think WAR is doomed. Too much attitude and not enough fun.
Posted: Nov 10th 2009 2:46PM (Unverified) said
"WoW is the giant killer"? I knew what I meant... um... sorta... more like "WoW is the 300 pound gorilla" yeah that was the sound bite I meant to trot out...
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Posted: Nov 10th 2009 3:38PM (Unverified) said
Me being a fan of WAR and more of a pvp lover than pve lover I think WAR is awesomely fun but I think mythic needs to fix things that the players have been saying for a long time and not release new content until the old content is fixed. They released LOTD while the games classes were still outta whack which took away from the fun.
Posted: Nov 10th 2009 4:01PM deadborder said
I can't imagine WOH's being a licenced IP Is helping any. Games Workshop's licencing fees has to be eating heavily into what little (if any) profit EA/Mythic is making on the game. That was probably the reason why they had such nutty subscription aims to start with (What was it? 500K to break even, a million to profit?). And GW is a company not known for being kind and merciful towards theuir licencors; they'll be getting their fees, come hell or high water.
Posted: Nov 11th 2009 1:16AM (Unverified) said
I don't really see how software piracy can affect an MMO unless its corporate structure forces it to take loses caused by other departments. If the cuts to Mythic are due to overall problems at EA, well then Warhammer is fine. If they made the cuts with the thought in mind of how overwhelmingly unsuccessful the game has been, that's another story.
Posted: Nov 11th 2009 5:05AM (Unverified) said
I just decided to try the trial. A little taste of nostalgy, if you will... I like the game.
Unfortunately the EU side is still run by the same ***tty GOA page. From the open beta fiasco to this day, the page is still the same and the account problems are exactly the same. I'm usually a patient man...
I just needed to vent this somewhere...
Phew.. thank you. I guess I'll try again.. Oh, this does bring memories back! Just like I wanted to... Gotta love GOA...
Unfortunately the EU side is still run by the same ***tty GOA page. From the open beta fiasco to this day, the page is still the same and the account problems are exactly the same. I'm usually a patient man...
I just needed to vent this somewhere...
Phew.. thank you. I guess I'll try again.. Oh, this does bring memories back! Just like I wanted to... Gotta love GOA...
Posted: Nov 27th 2009 7:19PM (Unverified) said
The next MMO I will spend my money on will be the 40k MMO that's being developed by Vigil Games. I was never really interested in Warhammer until I heard about this game from my friends and I find the universe and setting much more appealing than WoW's somewhat child-friendly, toned-down universe. Yet I found myself subbing and playing the game just for the people I ended up playing with and not because I wanted to play the game, so I quit. I don't know if WAR will die but if I had to make a guess I would say yes, poor class balancing, repetitive campaign progression and with no real incentive to hate your enemy I don't see why the game isn't finished already when there are games that are so much better on the market.
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Posted: Nov 17th 2009 4:21PM (Unverified) said
I am bored with WoW after 4 years of playing and I gave Aion a try but I found the lore to be rather lackluster and soulless. And flying combat sucks. So I decided to give WAR another try. They have made some great improvements to some of the problem areas of the game.
The different classes and races are fun and have a lot of character. PvP can begin at level 1 the moment you log into the game and keep warfare is GREATLY improved.
I hope people give it another chance.
The different classes and races are fun and have a lot of character. PvP can begin at level 1 the moment you log into the game and keep warfare is GREATLY improved.
I hope people give it another chance.
Posted: Jan 19th 2010 12:57PM (Unverified) said
I sure hope it will survive, I cannot and will not do WOW again... too much time and zero effort so I can get to rp chat and dance in a town full of children. I just picked up a copy of WAR for $6 at amazon because of the free forever. No, it is not perfect but I am a PvP'er and nothing out there is at all better for us since Shadowbane went down last may.
DOA? that is not mmo... that's an rpg no comparison. Fun but in the Balder's Gate genre. May as well get compared to Borderlands.
I would like to see reduced sub rates to bolster subs and keep things rolling... $7.99/mo and $44.99/6 mo model is what I would like to pay now as someone with multiple mmo fees to consider. Consider the value of the product vs the fee... not the cost of developement. Work the updates with a small team and get class balanced done slow with no nurfs... stick to the rock/scissors/paper model with a little twist. Get a small team working on new boxed content to release every year or so at $29.99 retail... go ahead and add micro, but only as a lazy man's short cut for items available also as rare drops in game.
I personally like the slow leveling... Tier 1 is a blast! sure there's a zerg, but you can avoid it and find good pvp groupings that cut through zerg like butter as they should... healing in pvp? god, what a concept... I remember very vividly the Shadowbane release when R2s and R3s owned everyone and an R4 was godlike till they increased the xp rates, this of course only occurs at new server up or server wipes but still the best part of the game (please disregard the bugs that killed SB).
Final note: I am so addicted to nvidia 3D now that I will never play flat faced again... it is that eye popping to play in, by it asap $399 at Tiger... with my new OC 3-way SLI box... incredible!
DOA? that is not mmo... that's an rpg no comparison. Fun but in the Balder's Gate genre. May as well get compared to Borderlands.
I would like to see reduced sub rates to bolster subs and keep things rolling... $7.99/mo and $44.99/6 mo model is what I would like to pay now as someone with multiple mmo fees to consider. Consider the value of the product vs the fee... not the cost of developement. Work the updates with a small team and get class balanced done slow with no nurfs... stick to the rock/scissors/paper model with a little twist. Get a small team working on new boxed content to release every year or so at $29.99 retail... go ahead and add micro, but only as a lazy man's short cut for items available also as rare drops in game.
I personally like the slow leveling... Tier 1 is a blast! sure there's a zerg, but you can avoid it and find good pvp groupings that cut through zerg like butter as they should... healing in pvp? god, what a concept... I remember very vividly the Shadowbane release when R2s and R3s owned everyone and an R4 was godlike till they increased the xp rates, this of course only occurs at new server up or server wipes but still the best part of the game (please disregard the bugs that killed SB).
Final note: I am so addicted to nvidia 3D now that I will never play flat faced again... it is that eye popping to play in, by it asap $399 at Tiger... with my new OC 3-way SLI box... incredible!
