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Reader Comments (89)

Posted: Oct 30th 2009 6:23PM Its Utakata stupid said

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Mr. Bounce...

...why don't you just shut-up? You're not doing Cryptic a favor in influencing me to renue my sub to CO by your insipid apologist claptrap. You have obviously in your tl,dr failed to understand my criticism of the retcon mechanics by harping on useless examples. If you like CO that much, fine...go play it. I'm sure you will find your time spent more productively than trying to disprove anything I stated over the stuff I've already gone over. Thank you.

/thread
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Posted: Oct 29th 2009 9:18PM Vitamin Dei said

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"And I will smuggly point out...that I don't have to pay 1 cent in RMT to respec/duel spec my toons both in WoW or CoX."

Well, you don't have to pay a cent in RMT to do it in CO, either. The option is still available to pay for the retcon with resources. Depending on how far down in the "stack" (timeline,chronology, whatever you want to call it) you need to make a change, this is not only viable but potentially trivial.

Retcon is a little bit different from a standard respec system, so I think we need to adjust our expectations a little bit.

Posted: Oct 29th 2009 9:19PM Vitamin Dei said

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Aaaand that was meant to be a reply to Utakata. Sorry!
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Posted: Oct 30th 2009 3:35AM Its Utakata stupid said

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@ Vitamin Dei

No worries...I see you quoted me, I know who it"s addressed to. :)

I'll have to plead ignorance here...despite me poking around extensively on CO of late (I finally found a toon that works after a kazillion tries). But it has had no effect on my 400 Cryptic Points; they still remain as such. So either I have to grind Aion style to get 1 measely CP, or there's a step I am missing. I suspect the latter.

That being said, I will point out that there is still the issue of those with not so disposable incomes having to grind for a retcon vs those whose incomes are such that they think of nothing of reconning themselves up to 5 times a day if they have to. Now this is an exageration...but my point still stands. If I want to respec myself in WoW and CoH all I have to do is grind, like everyone else. Which is not very much. Thus the beneifts of those two MMO's vastly out weigh CO's. There's really no way of getting around this glaring discrepancy.

Now this point does not players from liking Cryptic's MT reconning. And thinking it's perfectly fair. Even declaring it's the "way of the future." But that's not the game I like to play. This is the reason why. And I am not the only one of this view.
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Posted: Oct 30th 2009 6:24AM Joystiq Login Bugs SUCK said

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There is a difference though between paying 1 gold for a WoW respec and whatever is needed in resources for a retcon with in-game resources.

Yes it is obvious WoW don't allow you to change class, but the writer of this post went to great lengths to discuss faction and race changes but missed the most important, bought for 1 gold, a respec.
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Posted: Oct 30th 2009 4:49PM (Unverified) said

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"That being said, I will point out that there is still the issue of those with not so disposable incomes having to grind for a retcon vs those whose incomes are such that they think of nothing of reconning themselves up to 5 times a day if they have to. Now this is an exageration...but my point still stands. If I want to respec myself in WoW and CoH all I have to do is grind, like everyone else. Which is not very much. Thus the beneifts of those two MMO's vastly out weigh CO's. There's really no way of getting around this glaring discrepancy."

And people with money go out and buy characters leveled to 80 and fully decked out in T7 gear too for WoW. Not that it's allowed by MMO's companies, but it still happens. Your point being? People get ahead in this world if they have money. It happens in Capitalist countries. It happens in Communist countries. It's happened since the dawn of man, when the guy with the bigger club got the biggest chunk of meat off the spit. Unless you expect people to suddenly change and reform into some kind of Utopian society, money (or something equivalent) is going to speak louder than anything else. Would it be a better world if it did...? Probably, the world in Star Trek certainly seems interesting enough (if you set aside all the hostile aliens).

Oh, and I used to respec 3 or 4 times a day in WoW (that happens when you raid) and even relevel my jobs every other week depending on the content. I sometimes wished I could go out and buy gold, because it was stupidly expensive (not as much now because of economy changes in WoW). I haven't done a respec in CO yet except after I hit level 40 (so I could reshuffle my powers and try out some different builds without having to level up another hero), so that invalidates your argument pretty much as it gets around your glaring discrepency.

"Now this point does not players from liking Cryptic's MT reconning. And thinking it's perfectly fair. Even declaring it's the "way of the future." But that's not the game I like to play. This is the reason why. And I am not the only one of this view."

Yup, that's not the game you play... and yet you feel the need to jump in and criticize a system you don't even understand anymore (and it's debatable you actually knew much to begin with, but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt). Sorry, I'm not conceited enough to jump in and comment on games that I don't play a lot of, nor give opinions on things I know much about.

But it's the internet right, whatever floats your boat. I do feel sorry for people at Cryptic though, getting pointed out by people like you as some kind of corporate bad boys that are out to get your money.
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Posted: Oct 30th 2009 6:41PM Its Utakata stupid said

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@ Jay

I will point out that having race/faction changes in not the same as having class changes. Where as the former may give you slight advantges with racials, it's not radically changing your entire spells and ability base/mechanics that comes with class changing. In my view, you shouldn't be able to the latter whatsoever without rerolling. Especially with the ease of a credit card.

I should also point out, I don't agree with race/faction changes done this way either. I have problems with it. But I am saying Blizz has never taken that plunge Cryptic has so carelessly done. And making respective to one's personal RL income only has added insult to the injury.
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Posted: Oct 29th 2009 9:24PM Samael said

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Someone expected this writer to write something that was not overflowing with love for Cryptic and this game. Realize that I have LT sub and I really like this game. But come on Seraphina show some sort of un-biased view point. The sorry state of video game journalism is just sad. The amount of people sucking up to the devs so that they are favored and get to be the first to know things and get more hits on their websites is just truly saddening.

Yes a lot of the criticism that this game gets is not deserved, but a TON of it is. And the fact that you attack WoW like the way you says something. I don't like that game one bit myself, but I would show it some respect.

Bahhh, why do I even read the CO articles you write, its completely biased view point and a complete lovefest between you guys. Well hope you continue having fun, and continue sucking up to them. And I hope to god that this game lasts a for a long long while, or else my LT sub would go to waste.

Posted: Oct 29th 2009 9:37PM Suspiro said

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Don't mistake bloggers for journalists. Like comparing cow pies to apple pies
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Posted: Oct 29th 2009 9:40PM (Unverified) said

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Whay part of the meaning of the word "opinion" in the phrase "I'm going to give my honest opinions" eluded you? Opinions are biased by definition, and the writer stated very clearly she was giving her opinion at the begining of the post.
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Posted: Oct 29th 2009 10:43PM Samael said

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Even opinions need to have some basis in facts. Also the way Seraphina wrote the whole article it was basically saying:

"All you people who have a negative opinion of the game suck, and I am right. Cryptic is the best thing to happen to the world since the invention of electricity, and you all should just shut up and take it as they give it, dont you dare say anything else. Also I know I am right, why dont you shut up"

That was the message I got from it. That is my opinion.
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Posted: Oct 30th 2009 2:21AM Seraphina Brennan said

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It's my opinion column -- it's always horribly biased. It's the same thing as opinion columns in the newspaper: they present a point that you may or may not agree with. I don't have to be journalistic in this space every week, and most of the time I'm not. Everywhere else though, I'm sure you'll see, I'm pretty unbiased and to the point. Anti-Aliased, my editorial opinion column, is a completely different story.

So I apologize for the bias, but it's my opinion and I'm allowed to be biased here. You don't agree with me and that's cool. I respect that.

As to a love fest, I don't think I gave a love fest above. If you noticed, I said I wouldn't touch anything in the C-Store because it didn't interest me. The costumes aren't stellar, the service items I don't need, and the emblems are... unnecessary.

What I am trying to say here, and I think I said it clearly, is that the C-Store isn't the source of Champions's problems. You and I both know where the problems do lie, and I said in prior columns that the content isn't great, I wasn't a fan of the tanking/healing, and Lemuria is a lagfest.

I don't give this game stunning reviews, but I do fight for it in the areas where I think it's being overly griefed for no good reason.

((And, by the way, I'm a former World of Warcraft raid leader. I don't hate the game, and I think 4 years of playing it is a lot of respect.))
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Posted: Oct 30th 2009 6:29PM Samael said

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First there needs to be the reply to the reply button

Yes, The C Store is not the problem for Champions now, content is. The game seriously feels like if it had more depth in both content and lore, it would be a stellar game. I love costumes so for me the C Store is a pain because I will be spending a lot more, but with my LT sub I save a lot if this game survives. But don't you think that showing off the C Store and asking for extra money without fixing the core game is a little bit on the "cash grab" side of things?

And lets not forget the way they treat their customers. First there was the ninja edit of the LT sub issue, then the whole STO beta issue, then I don't know how many people noticed but the Epic Samurai costume set emote issue. I mean if they would just communicate better with their customer base it would be good, but they choose to still not get their act together.

If look at the forums, people will say that there are lot of whinners and that there are a ton of people who are just hating on the game and should be banned. But there are also a ton of fanboys that do nothing but berate anyone who has any sort of negative comment about the game in any way. These are not helpful in the least bit. I want to see this game grow because I really like this game and the core mechanics behind it. Add more stuff and add polish, my my you have a completely stellar game that can compete with the best.

But here is another side of me, that wants this game to fail completely and utterly. The reason? because I do not want the whole sub+item mall to become a standard in the industry. Realize that I did not say MTs, I said item malls. If it fails, I want other devs, specifically BioWare, to look at this and go like "Guys lets not do that." You are right in saying that Cryptic has not lied about the C Store. What they said were going to be on the Store is in the Store. You don't have to buy things from the store. But here is the thing, the costume pieces that will be free in the game will be very very mediocre compared to the ones in the C Store. Look at the Epic Samurai set and see the detail that went into it and look at the Celestial set that is free in-game. That is what I am afraid of, that they will nudge, not push, people to buy things from the C Store. The costumes in this game is large part of the game, withholding the really good ones from the players so that it can be purchased in the shop is a little too much in my opinion.

And you should know that people who pay subs are not huge fans of item shops, no matter what. I hate that the gaming population, the majority of it does not care that the companies will be charging them extra for no good reason and will take everything lying down. I seriously hope that people stand up some time soon or else they will be left at one point thinking "how the hell did we let things slide so low?"
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Posted: Oct 29th 2009 10:47PM (Unverified) said

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What makes you people wanna hate on a game so much and to go on mmo forums to purposefully demean a game... If you hate the game don't play it. Don't scare all the newcomers away that could enjoy diffrent things than you do.(this goes for every mmo since wow- aion war tabula rasa co fallen earth all great games but full of haters .. why?) The only problem i had with champions was the lack of content there was no issues i ever came across exept doing quests 2 lvls ahead of me. Now that all the new quests have been added and bloodmoon is here i have nothing to complain about..(zombie apoc is awesome) FYI all this micro transaction crap is stupid. Respecs are attainable in game.. costumes are added for free all the time(zombie celestial pieces ect..) and if people wanna spend money on new stuff let them don't gripe about it. i hate hello kitty online but you dont see me spam hating there forums :) And you can have an opinion about a game, but don't force that opinion on other people..

Posted: Oct 29th 2009 11:25PM (Unverified) said

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I actually got about 7 people other then myself to try this game out in beta. We had fun even on the pre-launch thing. Then came the nerfs the no free respecs the lack of content etc etc etc. 8 people quit this game in its first month out. We didnt rage about it but we all just kind of looked around and was like is anyone having fun? No? Ok then we left. Two other friends wouldnt even try it out cause they were reading up on the game and saw the C-store bs.

Another poster made a great point. This game lacks major content so to have things like new costumes, retcons etc cost money right now just feels lame.

In addition, the reason why people down this game is genreally because they are expressing their feelings about this game. Forums, blogs, etc are the appropriate place to do this, so dont be shocked when they do.

Finally, I have not seen anyone yet express negative feelings about this game that has not played it. The Fan boys who play this game are having fun I guess and well good for them. But I only say that as a pat on the head. Much like when you tell someone who has had their face ripped off by a zombie that it doesnt look that bad.... I mean you know their in trouble but why make them more stressed out right?

Posted: Oct 29th 2009 11:46PM Psychotic Storm said

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I hate the notion that if you enjoy the game then you can only be a fanboy.

If that isn't biased what is?
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Posted: Oct 30th 2009 12:06AM (Unverified) said

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I think calling them fan boys is fair although not entirely accurate. But I feel that it covers the majority which is good enough for me.

People who say I love this game and have a lifetime subscription. Which meant they could only buy that life time subscrtion before the game actually went live. Which is a fact. You bought a life time subscription to a game that hasnt technically come out yet..... Fan Boy.

and/or

People are addressing legitimate concerns and issues about a game and you jump in front of it and say dont hurt my mommy! Fan Boy.

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Posted: Oct 30th 2009 5:21PM (Unverified) said

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"I think calling them fan boys is fair although not entirely accurate. But I feel that it covers the majority which is good enough for me."

I think fanboy is a lot like "hardcore" vs "casual". I'm not a fan of any of the terms because it generalizes way too much, but when it comes down to it, it's a pretty accurate term.

Heck, I bought a CO life time membership so lump me in with the fanboy(s). Why? Because playing in Beta I felt the game had a good future, and more importantly I could afford it. Would I have bought a lifetime for CO if I didn't play in Beta? Nope, probably not. I don't throw money out that easily. Same reason I didn't pay for the DDO life time subscription after playing in Beta, I didn't see the game going far.

Do I still play CO? Yup, I do, probably not as much as I did the first month or so, but then a lot of good games have been coming out lately that have been taking up my free time (Uncharted 2, Borderlands and Demon's Soul... soon MW2 and FFXIII).

Do I tend to stick up for the game / developer? Sometimes, depends on what's being said. I certainly bring my concerns and complaints about the game and even have had arguments with a dev from Cryptic over pm's. I don't fully agree with everything, but I do try to see things from both sides of the fence. I think one of my pet peeves is when someone says a game is bad and everyone should hate it because... they themselves hate it. There's one poster on here in particular (Utakaka or something) that epitomizes this. Omg, omg WoW and CoX is this and this and this, but CO isn't, thus CO is bad.

But then I do that with the people who work under me too. I'll stick up for someone if I think the criticism is unfair. If a client unfairly criticizes the work from one of the people I oversee, I'll stick up for them. If a client fairly criticizes them though, I'll make sure it doesn't happen again.
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Posted: Oct 29th 2009 11:25PM (Unverified) said

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If I didn't know better and just read the comments, I'd have thought that all gaming journalism is was just a series of pissing contests held under the sanctioning body of news reporting.

The point of this opinion piece, I believe, was to say that those were bitching and moaning about the C-Store may be overreacting and attempted to show why. Whether it was successful or not is an exercise left to the reader.

Here's a thought: Why would you want a retcon, other than your twink going south? What if you don't mind playing a lightning-spewing werewolf scientist with a satellite cannon (I know someone who plays just that) whose stats may not be the optimal design? What if you're playing to have fun and not necessarily playing to win? Do you still need a retcon?

Posted: Oct 29th 2009 11:44PM (Unverified) said

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lmao you have to love BS assumptions like yours.

I wanted a retcon because the nerfs they did changed my characters theme. I made a toon Called Furious George. A little spider monkey with super dexterity and a master of kung fu. Corny I know but fun for me. At the time you could use thunder bolt lunge to spam jump on someone basically. It was hilarious to me to see my spider moneky using his acrobatics and thunderbolt lunge to leap from wall to wall and bounce/jump kick people in the head. Especially players who made maxed height/ size chas. I themed his power like Speedball. A lesser known marvel hero who uses kenitic force to jump all over the place etc.

The retcon nerfed Thunderbolt lunge with a hefty cool down. I couldnt do my jump around gimmick (The nerf was needed. But I wished they would have taken away the knock back and lowered damage rather then make it so you couldnt use it as your main attack). My guy still knew kung fu but I felt his gimmick was done. I decided I would use a mix of might and martial arts and with a sprinkle of inventions and make my guy a shapeshifter via a second way bigger costume change that I could use enrage and micro on. I needed a retcon.....

Not everything is about twinking. If you the developer change things around in a big way then we the player should have a free retcon. Plus we should have some kind of reasonable access to retcons as is. People keep trying to compare Retcons to WoW retcons. But apples and oranges really. WoW has classes with mini classes in them. WoW attempts sometimes succesfully and sometimes not to make all those classes/mini classes viable. WoW also doesnt punish you for their in game power changes. Champions really doesnt know what it wants to do with itself when it comes to balancing powers. Also their powerhouse is freaking lame lol. It doesnt prepare you for pvp or going out and fighting mobs etc etc. I mean they could at least put a 2 hour free retcon thing when you leave the powerhouse so you could really test your powers in the feild.

But finally at the end of the day. Champions Online is not much of a Champion game. It will probbally keep its head above the water much like Age of Conan or even City of heros. But it will always be a second class citizen. Which is not always a good thing. Cause games like WoW that are epicly succesful show us that with more players=more money for the company= more free upgrades, patches, and content to the game with significant exspansions.
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