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Reader Comments (89)

Posted: Oct 29th 2009 5:17PM (Unverified) said

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"And, to be very honest, don't let people kid you -- the only reason you might screw up your character in Champions is because you didn't do your homework."

Not only does this sound elitist (and counter productive in a game environment), it speaks to a lack of play time. The powerhouse is a very limited chance to test some powers. Some. That's just the tip of the iceberg.

This retcon in the Cstore speaks to a developer that hasn't listened to its customer base since beta. It's the one issue that consistently came up and Cryptic ignored over and over.

I didn't get angry. I walked away.

Lastly, respecs in WoW are MUCH more viable than they are in CO. Comparing apples (respecs) to oranges (name changes) makes zero sense. Please compare WoW respecs to CO respecs.

Posted: Oct 29th 2009 5:25PM (Unverified) said

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Okay, let's compare WoW respecs to CO respecs.

WoW respecs cost a load of in-game money.

CO respecs cost a load of in-game money, but they also offer the option to pay a reasonable-but-not-low-enough-to-abuse amount of real-world money for those who don't have the time to play CO enough to afford the respec with in-game money.

So clarify for me, what is the problem?
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Posted: Oct 29th 2009 5:36PM (Unverified) said

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Respec'ing in WoW shuffles around stats and a few abilities unique to each talent tree. It can never completely change your class, even for a hybrid.

If WoW had a respec like CO, you could unlearn all your class abilities and get Divine Shield, Bloodlust, Intercept, Innervate, Freezing Trap, Death Grip, Fan of Knives, Flash Heal, Shadow Bolt, and Spell Steal. That's on top of resetting all your talent points, too.

Who's comparing apples to oranges here?
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Posted: Oct 29th 2009 5:38PM (Unverified) said

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"Lastly, respecs in WoW are MUCH more viable than they are in CO. Comparing apples (respecs) to oranges (name changes) makes zero sense. Please compare WoW respecs to CO respecs." -Malleus

Exactly. While the "article" combined all of WoW's services to try and give all of what a Retcon does, the fact remains that probably over 80% of the people complaining about Retcons do not want name changes or recreations. They want the retcon for the respec. So you were right, that is quite a stretch, and one that has almost no bearing on the situation except to inflate numbers to make it look like Champions is doing us a great favor by costing less than WoW.
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Posted: Oct 29th 2009 7:49PM (Unverified) said

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Seriously um, you need to actually know about the game you're commenting on before making yourself look like a complete moron.

A free retcon in WoW is essentially being able to take your character and change it's base class. So if you were a Paladin, you could do a "retcon" and become a Rogue. Or a Hunter. That's what a retcon in WoW would be like. And you know what? You can't do that in WoW unless you reroll and make a new toon.

This is the kind of stupidity that I was referring to in another post, typical casual gamers complaining because they think they actually know something.
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Posted: Oct 30th 2009 10:07AM mysecretid said

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Cryptic recently added a "Danger Room" to the game's Powerhouses (called a Battle Station, to deflect lawsuits) where you can test newly-acquired powers in customizable combat scenarios against AI enemies -- either solo, or as part of a group.

The game has changed. You can absolutely "try before you buy" with powers.
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Posted: Oct 29th 2009 5:22PM (Unverified) said

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in b4 "ur a fangirl."

But seriously, I'm glad someone finally addressed these concerns. People were all up in arms about the retcon thing, which made positively no sense to me. It's priced high enough that you can't abuse it, as you said, and it's still perfectly possible to obtain a retcon purely in-game. So what's the big deal? There isn't one, that's what. Until the C-Store imbalances the game, the QQers need to keep their faces firmly shut.

Posted: Oct 29th 2009 5:34PM Arcadian said

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OK, I'll bite.

C-Store is one of the main reasons I canceled. Why?

Not because of microtransactions. You can't fault an MMO company wanting to make money off of optional services. That's just the future of the industry. But the games you compared CO to (WoW, GW, CoX) all have something in common:

They all built up significant content BEFORE opening their microtransaction stores.

Here's where your theory that Champions Online has reasonable prices falls completely apart: You can't compare one game's microtransactions to another without taking into consideration all the game has to offer, and Champions Online has pitiful content right now. PvE from 1-40 is trivial (you can skip the tutorial now and start at 5), PvP is completely broken and there is no endgame content save two broken 5-man lairs and the crapshoot that is UNITY missions.

Seeing all the effort Cryptic put into the C-Store is insulting compared to the fact that the entire Lemuria zone is a nightmare, powers are still broken and entire powersets are unfinished, and the game has about 40% of the content it needs.

To me, this says Cryptic is more worried about squeezing extra bucks out of what little playerbase is left than adding content and fixing problems that have been there since closed beta.

Once again, the C-Store itself is not the problem. All MMOs do this, or soon will. The problem is CO has miles to go with just normal bugfixes, balancing, and content content CONTENT before worrying about how much to price costumes and retcons.

The C-Store is icing on the cake. CO's problem is *there is no cake*. That's why so many people are upset with the C-Store. If they put that development and code time into fixing the problems that have been there for months and continue to be there months after launch, then it would be different.

As it is, I'm gone, and so are a bunch of other people.

Posted: Oct 30th 2009 2:06AM Seraphina Brennan said

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I can certainly go along with that. Lemuria is certainly a nightmare, and I wish the issues that go along with it would be fixed (as it is an awesome zone.)

I don't think the C-Store is detracting significant resources away from the team though. The stuff in it isn't exactly groundbreaking, by any stretch of the imagination, and I think the team's focus is still with the bulk of the game and not dropping stuff into the C-Store.

Beyond that though, I do agree with you.
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Posted: Oct 30th 2009 7:14AM Arcadian said

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And yes, I'll give you that the C-Store guys are different from the content and bugfix team. They're working on two different things. But there are priority things that need to be fixed before the C-Store was ever introduced The fact that from an overall game standpoint that the C-Store was given resources and priority over *fixing one of the game's five zones to make it playable* does not speak well of the kind of priorities Cryptic has for the game as a whole.

Same goes with Blood Moon, if not even more so. The folks responsible for the event and quests for that event *were* clearly taken off fixing Lemuria to make sure the Blood Moon stuff was ready to go. In fact, all the other four zones got Blood Moon content, but not Lemuria.

I see Roper blabbing about a new Nemesis lair, the winter event and whatever's coming in 2010 with no mention of fixing Lemuria. That's just bad business.

Like I said, when that big content patch drops in early 2010 I'll check it out. But I'm not paying $15 a month to wait in the meantime. Those 3 months I would have given to Cryptic are basically paying for Dragon Age instead.
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Posted: Oct 29th 2009 5:37PM Vitamin Dei said

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"I, however, like the way Cryptic thought -- add the option but make it expensive enough so it can't be abused."

This.

Cryptic would be silly to not offer a retcon in the c-store - people were crying for one the moment the in-game cost was adjusted upward. With that in mind, though, let's try to remember that our time is the developer's most valuable commodity. Everything in MMO is designed to be both entertaining and (possibly more importantly) time consuming in order to keep subscription numbers up. Whether we're leveling, grinding snake gulch snake bucks, acclaim in PvP, or perk hunting, we're engaging ourselves in the time sinks meant to keep us aboard. Forking over our $12.50 and potentially transforming those 40 levels worth of character into whatever strikes our fancy at any given moment is effectively circumventing the system that's meant to keep us engaged, filling their servers, and paying our subs. Sure, they'll let us do it, but it does need to be gated somehow, or we're likely to grow bored and move on we've seen it all.

Posted: Oct 29th 2009 5:47PM (Unverified) said

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Seems ok to me. If you have OCD disorders where you can't resist the urge to respec your character to level 0 just so you have 1 more point in one skill to do .0056 more dps under some special circumstance etc.. then you pay the ocd tax. If you have any self control you wait till they nerf a power and get the respec for free.

The game ain't perfect (imo while there are a lot of travel powers some are intrinsically better than others to the point that I only use 2-3 even when I'd like a change of pace) but it bears little resemblance to the game described by the haters around here.

Did cryptic sexually assault your mom or what?

Posted: Oct 29th 2009 5:50PM (Unverified) said

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And the haters will continue to hate on the game and say the sky is falling.

Unfortunately CO has the type of theme that attracts casual MMO players, and the core crowd of casual gamers are typically the very whiny / complaint driven players who typically aren't very thoughtful gamers.

It's an unfortunate byproduct / trend of gaming which has become widespread and more mainstream than ever to include people from all walks of life. Even the area once set aside for "hardcore" gamers, MMO's are going "casual".

And of course, a lot of the casual crowd are impatient, instant gratification type players who have very little patience for anything. The people arguing they want free / more Retcon's is a great example. A little thought / planning and you can build a perfectly fine hero in CO. Even if you went and grabbed things willy nilly, you can still play the game. If you plopped the same players who are struggling to handle basic talent organization in to MUDs from back in the day, games that were entirely stat driven / number crunching games, they'd probably implode from having to use their brains.

The QQ'ing and drivel I see on the CO forums is worse than anything I've seen on the WoW forums, and I thought the casual crowd from WoW was bad. There are barely any intelligent discussions on any of the sections of the CO board, and that's not an exaggeration.

It's too bad too, because for what it is, a casual MMO, CO is pretty fun. It's lacking in certain aspects for sure, but the constant QQ'ing from the uneducated gamers is starting to wear thin and ruin the experience.

Posted: Oct 29th 2009 6:11PM (Unverified) said

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*cries at being lumped in with the haters and whiners* :(
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Posted: Oct 29th 2009 7:27PM (Unverified) said

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Hey I used "typically", "many" and "a lot". I didn't say everyone :P
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Posted: Oct 29th 2009 6:26PM (Unverified) said

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Grengarm has a good point here. A respec in WoW is just talents. A respec in CO can change your entire class. It can allow you to go from support, to tanking, to melee DPS, to ranged DPS, and everything in between, with the push of a button.

And you naysayers have still failed to address what exactly the problem is with allowing retcons via in-game money and via real-world money. It's not like the retcon is so cheap that it can be easily exploited. Perhaps they should slap a cooldown on the C-Store retcon too, just to be safe. But really, what's the damn problem? I don't get it.

Posted: Oct 29th 2009 6:46PM CCon99 said

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"For the price of one City of Heroes booster pack, you can buy yourself 3 costume sets and pocket the last dollar. Or, heck, you can spend that last dollar on an entire series of new emblem options."


Actually, if you were to buy all of the cosmetic items (costumes, emblems) that were offered in the first C-Store offering, it would cost you $18.75 ( purchase of 1000 points and 500 points) to have enough cryptic points to purchase every cosmetic sets offered. So that would be =ALMOST= the price of =TWO= of those City of Heroes booster packs you mentioned. That's also almost the price of what some games have charged for a $20 expansion pack that offers actual content. The costumes they're selling are very pricey.

I have no problem with the other services they offer to sell, hell the extra costume slots were something unexpected that I was really happy to see. Sure the retcons are a bit over priced, especially considering how much the community has been begging for them. But whatever, if someone really wants one that bad to pay almost a price of a whole months subscription, by all means go for it.


"The servers haven't exploded since the store came online, and the game is chugging along at its usual pace."

That's only half true, the servers definitely haven't exploded (unless you count the outage and downtimes over Saturday and Sunday this past weekend), but they are a lot more bare then they were two weeks ago, and that's counting their major Blood Moon update that was added Tuesday. And I'm not guessing this, I'm a lifetimer who actually enjoys the game despite it's downs, but I'm not blind to the state the game is in either. Cryptic offering a reactivation weekend so soon, already tells you the game's not in the best of conditions.

"...Microtransactions make me want to die." -Jack Emmert

Posted: Oct 29th 2009 6:56PM CCon99 said

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*wishes there was an edit feature*

"Then I actually awoke from my daze and realized it's three dollars per costume set. As in, "You get all the pieces of this set for three dollars.""

I also wanted to correct this part of the article. You can't buy a costume set for $3.00 USD in Champions Online, the minimum points Cryptic offers to sell is 500 points at $6.25 USD. While yes the =VALUE= of a set might be around $3, if you only wanted to buy just that one set, you're then scammed to spend $6.25, since you're forced to use their "points" system instead of just paying with cash for each item.
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Posted: Oct 30th 2009 2:34AM Seraphina Brennan said

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I haven't been in the game in a bit (thanks to Aion and Borderlands) but that's a shame to hear that the servers are bare. I was really looking forward to Blood Moon, and I really want to give it a spin before it goes off into the nether regions.

Also, interesting point with the math. Although, I will admit, it just makes me hate math more rather than change my mind, as it shows that you and I can both take numbers and spin them to form different perspectives on the same thing. But, we agree on the fact that we don't have to pay for it if we don't want to, which is my main point. ^_^
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Posted: Oct 29th 2009 6:48PM saintnicster said

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The comparison between the City and Champions costumes doesn't sit well with me. It isn't as cut and dry as you make it out. The Boosters aren't just costume packs (which you admit), so those aren't the only thing that factors into their perceived value with players.

Also, take a look at the Magic Booster.
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Super_Booster_II:_Magic
In that alone, there are 4 costumes that you get (in addition to the power and emotes that you dismiss for comparison's sake). So that's 4 sets for the compared $10, vs 3 sets and the pocketed dollar/emblems. Again, not as simple.

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