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Reader Comments (20)

Posted: Sep 30th 2009 7:57PM Minofan said

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Well those are certainly some Interesting changes (capital I warranted).

Some things that could have a real positive impact there (no more Stuns or Fortresses, the peculiar/innovative auto-guilding & captaincies), and simultaneously some serious Portents Of Doom...

- Removing 6 small tier 4 maps (the Fortresses).
- Marginalizing 4 big tier 1 maps (sure a few will try to cap them on principle, but with the E vs C pair bustling most players will surely opt to skip them - at least till on the verge of out-levelling them).
- Apprenticing allowing players to skip the less eventful tiers 2 & 3 by graduating directly to T4.

I mean I think these changes will make for a better game experience, but I've never seen this scale of content cut/marginalized from an MMO.

Posted: Sep 30th 2009 8:18PM Xii said

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> peculiar/innovative auto-guilding

They do this in DAoC, IIRC.
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Posted: Sep 30th 2009 8:24PM GaaaaaH said

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How to say this without looking like a troll...

I'd call taking out the other pairings and classes a bigger cut (from the same game). It hopefully make the game more accessible, and fortunately they're taking elements from other games tat work well to improve their own product.
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Posted: Sep 30th 2009 9:34PM Xii said

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They aren't removing those classes and races... they're simply having everyone start in the same zones. You can still roll all of the existing races and classes; you'll just start off in Nordland/Norsca.

As it is, the other zones in ORvR are mostly dead where as the Chaos/Empire zones are always going. They are more or less following what players are already doing. New players won't know this though, and will just get to the ORvR lakes in GS/dwarf or elf zones and see no or few people there and conclude that the game is dead. I can see how this makes sense for them, even at the expense of the other 4 zones.
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Posted: Sep 30th 2009 9:43PM agitatedandroid said

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@ZombiBambi

"and will just get to the ORvR lakes in GS/dwarf or elf zones and see no or few people there and conclude that the game is dead."

Well, when a game cuts down its servers that's one sign. When they actually start cutting back on actual locations in the game so people don't think no one is playing well, then... isn't the game really dead by then?

Funneling everyone into an area just to make it look like the game is full of happy players just feels like "don't look behind the curtain."

I want every MMO to succeed. I really wanted WAR to succeed. Maybe the game is fun. Maybe they are succeeding by a metric based on having enough subscribers to pay for the servers. But, by and large, the game has been a failure in that I don't think it's in any way meeting the developers original goals. Sad panda.
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Posted: Sep 30th 2009 10:03PM Xii said

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Honestly, I don't even play anymore. According to XFire, I have ~1500 hours of WAR, but I quit a couple of months ago when my entire guild left.

There were still active servers, even in T1. I don't see the harm of funneling the remaining players into one zone. It's being realistic, and it will make the game more enjoyable for new players. I don't see that as a bad thing.

A game isn't dead until it gets shutdown. As someone who enjoys some niche titles, a game doesn't need millions of subs to be fun for its players and profitable for its operator.
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Posted: Sep 30th 2009 8:15PM Xii said

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Wow, this looks really impressive. They seem to have actually been making changes that people want. The CC nerf is awesome... that has been the worst thing about WAR since AoE got fixed. No longer will combat be about who can stun whom first. The starting area changes are nice... Chaos/Empire is always the most popular T1 ORvR zone, probably because both sides' WCs are so close, and you don't spend half your time running around like you do in the elf and GS/stuntie zones.

Fortress removal... wow. I'm really kind of surprised (haven't been following WAR much for a couple of months), but this is great. Fortresses have been nigh untakeable if even a few people bother to defend them, and most people (at least on Iron Rock) don't even bother to siege them; rather they just switch pairings. This would be even better if they made the city sieges less dull than they are. I'm also kind of worried that this will just amplify any population imbalances.

* Ruin and Destruction: This ability's damage has been increased, and the stun has been removed.

I can't even imagine how much nerd rage this will inspire. BW is the most popular class in the game (either side), and this ability formed the core of the BW bomb build. Combine it with the removal of stun to Heaven's Fury, and I can see a lot of Order ragequitting.

Overall... for a long time, Mythic seemed to be stuck in its own world wrt WAR patches... they seemed to be designing for they game as they imagined it would be, rather than the game it is. In recent months they seem to have returned to reality. This is a welcome change.

Posted: Sep 30th 2009 9:39PM (Unverified) said

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I really wish WoW would develop an apprentice system like this. I love playing in a group (not having somebody's brother's DK run us all through an instance). Something like this would actually let us play with our friends more often AND still give us a challenge.

It's annoying when you want to run something with a friend but you don't have a character in their level range.

Posted: Oct 1st 2009 12:31AM (Unverified) said

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The new user experience details makes me kind of sad. I personally felt that the Greenskin/Dwarf area was by far the most well done of all the T1 zones. Now they are just going to toss that away.

Not kind of sad, very sad. If it helps them turn it around, then so be it, but it sucks to see them start cannibalizing zones simply because they've been too ignorant to listen to their players up until now.

Posted: Oct 1st 2009 12:49AM (Unverified) said

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I kinda have mixed feeling on that myself.
The pop naturally gravitates to Empire at tier 1 anyway so it's not that big of a deal but it does bug me that it's going to be "forced".
Players will still be able to go to the other tier 1 areas the way I am reading this, so it's not like they are removing it.
T1 is always jumping and mostly the Elf and Dwarf zones are rolled once either Empire is T1 is secure or destro is putting up to good of a fight and WB's try to draw or break up the fight by attacking another pairing.
Either way most people get drawing into Empire T1 eventually. You don't exactly spend a large amount of time in T1 anyway.

But personally I feel that forcing it does devalue the other pairings. I like the Dwarf / Ork tiers better then the Empire/Chaos.
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Posted: Oct 1st 2009 12:58AM GaaaaaH said

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I played all of the pairings, and I also liked the atmosphere of the Dwarf/Greenskins, however I have to agree that the layout of the Empire/Chaos pairing is arranged in a more fluid manner.

Was it just me or did Chaos also have the most population at that range on destruction?
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Posted: Oct 1st 2009 2:46AM (Unverified) said

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The more I think about this, the more it really seems like they are taking the easy route to try and get people to overlook the games other glaring problems.

Kind of like making a bunch of sandwiches for your friends and then realizing they taste like crap. Instead of going back to the kitchen and building a better sandwich, you throw cheese on them to hide or disguise the taste and hope nobody notices.

There are changes they could have made to the leveling tier system that could have helped all tiers out. Instead, we are left with this. Mythic seems fond of taking the path of least resistance, which disappoints and alienates players such as myself.

But hey, at least we have another "live event" coming up in October. :P
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Posted: Oct 1st 2009 12:59AM (Unverified) said

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They should make the choice of starting careers pairing optional, with a default for E/C. I mean I have gone through all of the starting areas, and I think E/C pairing most. If I wanted to get to a good orcish feeling, I'd hate to run to the first roflcopter area, then back to your "real" starting area... Propably even die on the way, if I want to stay "true" and not level on the empire area...

Otherwise nice idea for RvR. For PvE, which is propably at its juiciest in t1 (oh, the orcish humor..:))), it's bad.

Posted: Oct 1st 2009 1:13AM Myria said

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The most worrisome thing about the changes to T1 is what it means for the future. The one and only reason Empire vs Chaos is the only zone to survive (no one starting in the other two and the T1 RvR lakes for all but EvC are being eliminated, those zones are going to be so dead even ghosts won't bother with them) is because EvC is the only campaign with a city at the end of it.

This effectively kills any hope they are ever going to add the other cities dead. Worse, it begs the question of what will happen to the GSvsD and DEvsHE campaigns in the future. Removing the two "extraneous" T1 RvR lakes sets a depressing precedent. If you don't need GSvsD and DEvsHE T1, really what do you need their T2 - T4 for?

Shrinking content is never a good thing, going from three starting zones per side to only one is even worse, but what really worries me is how long it'll be before they decide to dump the non-Chaos vs Empire T2 - T4.

Posted: Oct 1st 2009 1:50AM Cicadymn said

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Hell these sound like some solid and smart changes. If I wasn't poor as all hell right now I'd re-up. I had been wanting to roll a Blorc for a long time nearing the end of my playing experience and even after it. However the lack of people to level up with really didn't encourage me to do it. But now it seems they're finally taking some radical steps.

When my funds return I'll definitely be giving it another shot. If they keep fixing the game like this I'm all for it.

Posted: Oct 1st 2009 11:21AM (Unverified) said

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Since some people didnt bother to read the notes let me clarify stuff for you.

You START in Chaos/Empire, you can visit the flight master and quest in the Dwarf/Greenskin, Elf/DarkElf zones if you want... you just start off there. So while actively funneling you to a zone, your not limited to that zone.

Secondly, they are COMPLETELY closing ORVR lakes in Dwarf/Greenskin, and DE/Elf zones, the ONLY ORVR lake in Tier 1 will be empire chaos. So you can do PVE in all zones, but are funneled into only 1 at the start, you cannot PVP in all zones, only Empire/Chaos.

Posted: Oct 1st 2009 1:13PM (Unverified) said

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Where did the notes say about closing RvR lakes in t1 (except C/E)? Because that would be quite boring. The lake isnt that big. Although you wont spend very long time in t1, I'd find it quite dull that there would be no other rvr lakes...
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Posted: Oct 1st 2009 4:32PM (Unverified) said

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Oh I read the notes, I just don't think you should have to travel to get to a zone that you prefer to quest in. I'd wager a fair number of others feel the same. This is a weak solution all around.

Posted: Oct 1st 2009 11:58AM Chriskovo said

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Honestly at this point does it really matter what they do? I mean whenever i sign onto my server nothing is going on. I havent seen it at Med/Med since the Aion beta came out. It just to late on their part even if they are good changes for RVR we have been waiting a year for these changes and they are just implenting them now, after ignoring us for so long. Their is no more good will towards their game or their company anymore, even if Aion fails they will never be able to recover their sub numbes because of all the bad blood.

Posted: Oct 1st 2009 2:26PM (Unverified) said

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I think the key thing that people have to realize is that this is just a stepping stone toward future changes and thus while they may seem confusing and inadequate at the moment (i.e. other Tier 1 lakes gone), hopefully later changes will solidify and fill in the gaps that seem confusing at the moment.

That said though, I still have no interest in returning to the game until they make keep combat more deep, meaningful, and enjoyable (i.e. on part with Tribes or Planetside). Adding a second ramp, doesn't really do it for me. If I'm going to spend most of my time battling over keeps, that aspect of the game has to be exciting and a different experience every time. Adding more dynamic and diverse ways to attack a keep (again similar to Tribes or Planetside) can hopefully achieve that. Once they've done that, I'll return to the game in an instant.

As for the apprentice system, ya every MMO with levels should have that.

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