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Reader Comments (31)

Posted: Sep 21st 2009 9:07AM Celicynd said

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Wonder if they're ever address the fact that the forum software they're using is compromising their players account names (showing account instead of global names on a certain page), and that after 5 days of knowing about it, they still haven't taken down or corrected the page, and are not offering any sort of way of rectifying the situation with players whose accounts were compromised (by allowing thechanging of account name)

Posted: Sep 21st 2009 9:15AM (Unverified) said

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Is it really that much of a crisis?

As I recall anyway, someone can see what your forum name is just by seeing you in game, as the @handle after your character name is the same as your forum account.

What's the big deal?
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Posted: Sep 21st 2009 10:48AM Celicynd said

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Joshua:
They can see your forum name, which is the same as your global @name in game. They're not supposed to be able to see your actual log in account name. They can.

That violates the first layer of security they implemented by having a different global/forum name to begin with.

So, yes,
if people are able to get information they're not supposed to have about your users accounts, it is a big deal.
The fact that the company has now known about it for 5 days and still hasn't corrected the problem is a big deal.
The fact that their answer on their forums to the problem is basically, "yea, people could have gotten your account name, hope you have a good password!" is a big deal.
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Posted: Sep 21st 2009 9:52AM (Unverified) said

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Best dev response to a problem I've ever seen:

"Respecs arent too expensive, you're just too poor"

So instead of lowering the respec prices what do they do? Raise the amount of money people are making (by returning it to the level it was in pre-launch btw), which is going to necessitate a change to the rest of the economies money sinks (tailors and crafting).


Bravo for circular stupidity

Posted: Sep 21st 2009 10:46AM (Unverified) said

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Get over the retcon crying already, make better choices. Also keep in mind that 2 weeks into the game the economy is still very young. Gurantee that a year from now people will be complaining about retcon's being to cheap and everyone is running around as the same FoTM.
MMO players have gone off the deep end complaining about games these days. WoW has spoiled the old timers, and the noobs don't know what it's like to play a game that's not all polish.

Posted: Sep 21st 2009 11:16AM (Unverified) said

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Right, because you can learn exactly how a power works and fit into your character perfectly simply by testing it against a helpless training dummy for a few minutes.

And powers never change drastically, so you dont have to worry about a decent ability being turned into complete crap down the road...
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Posted: Sep 21st 2009 7:15PM dudemanjac said

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Well you could test the power against other in the power house before walking out. you could not wait 5 lvls before deciding you didn't like that power. going back one level isn't out of the question if it means that much to you. And when big changes are made, they offer a retcon... which they are also doing after the economy change.

Ppla were whining about this after the first day of play. Start over. Not gonna say I didn't ake advantage of it. In Fact, just used my retcon last night to turn my fire guy into a force guy at lvl 20. And I know another is coming so I may do something again if that doesn't work out. But if i didn't have a retcon coming I would have dumped him a long time ago and started over because I didn't like it. and that was with more than a day of fooling around in.

Oh and they will also soon be adding a room with dummies that fight back.
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Posted: Sep 21st 2009 4:39PM Samael said

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ummm...I thought things get better with age.

Tell me, why is it wrong to complain about lack of polish? Why is it wrong to ask for the very best? It is not like they are doing what they are from the goodness of their hearts. They are in it to earn money, and consumers have every right to ask that their hard earned money is spent on a polished product.

I am truly sick of having people say "but this is an MMO, it is supposed to be like this," well the only reason it is like this is because we have allowed it to be, because we have put up with it. Now it is about time that we ask for the very best. This is not the early ages of the genre, it has evolved, learn to adapt to changing tastes and changing expectations.

I say we are not demanding enough of the developers, we treat them like royalty. That should stop. Yes they provide us with fun and exciting things, but we pay for it as well. We pay for everything that they do. This is the appalling thing in the gaming industry, we just take things laying down. We are being too complacent I say.

So go ask your questions, and demand answers. Do not believe in some stupid PR speak. No one is willing to ask the tough questions, least of all Massively, specially about this game.

And before you say "If you hate this game so much, then why comment?" Well I do not hate this game. I happen to really really like it. Or else I would not have gotten a lifetime sub for it. And hence I have all the right to demand the very best.
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Posted: Sep 21st 2009 10:20PM (Unverified) said

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And people wonder why some MMOs never improve and gradually die away. Does anyone remember Asheron's Call? All the time demanding changes; all the time demanding upgrades--meanwhile, AC was providing interactive content and working to polish the storylines to the best of their abilities. What happened? If you want my opinion, they gave up. Yes, they're still out there. Yes, they're still doing their monthly updates and transitions. But from what I've seen, there's almost nothing new since I left 4 years ago!

Ok, I agree that we have the right to expect the best possible experience from an MMO or any game. Unfortunately, with an MMO in particular, you can NOT expect the product to be perfect on the day of release--there's always someone who will manage to break what the designers thought was unbreakable! For CO to be running as well as it is only two weeks since its release is a big plus to the design team. I congratulate them on a product I actually enjoy!

Will CO supplant WoW? If you ask me, they stand a chance. They may not totally replace WoW, but to provide a superhero genre with the potential to become as big and as complex, it's worth the effort.
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Posted: Sep 25th 2009 7:21AM MewmewGrrl said

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Okay Grandpa, so you used to walk to school 50 miles in the snow barefoot hauling logs on your back and us kids don't know what it's like, but that doesn't mean we should purposely have to suffer in a game. We were given a system where we were told we could pay to undo our power set and get different ones if we want, so your whole thing where you say "make better decisions" isn't what we were told we were going to be able to do in the game. The system was set up where we were told we could respec our powers if we didn't like our set. The way it is now, if you can save up enough money to undo one single power, you'd be darn lucky. The price scales up so much that it's usually a little bit more than the lifelong savings of the person just to undo a single power. If the game had came out with no way to respec, that would have been fine, but it's not how the game came out. It came out telling us we'd be able to undo our powers and get new ones, but then the prices just ended up totally out of hand making it so we are unable to do so. I never used my free respec, so I still have that, but I want the system to work the way it was promised to us that it would work.
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Posted: Sep 21st 2009 10:34AM Gel214th said

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I find the comment about Retcons to be quite amusing. That it took them 3 weeks to know what players knew the very first time they made the change is alarming.

Is it that there were absolutely no metrics in the year leading up to launch that Cryptic had about the amount of resources an average player can make from the Missions?

If so..how were Retcon prices set in the FIRST place?

Someone's doing a number on the players with some obfuscating language and some feel good PR speak.

The solution should have been to DRASTICALLY Decrease the cost of Retcons Immediately for the player base immediately once they realised the problem. In the meantime they sort out all the other aspects of the game which need to be fixed before Retcon prices can be increased.

These features include but aren't limited to :The Economy, The broken Mail System through which you cannot send resources and items go missing,the ineffective auction house system. To a lesser extent the lack of robust team user interface features also contributes to a lack of resources. The lack of content also contributed to a lack of resources.

What the players got was a drastic increase in the cost of Retcons,which effectively made the system completely unworkable.

It was akin to the government saying Today we are adding a 300% Sales Tax on absolutely everything. But have no fear, we are removing import duties, VAT,Income Tax and retooling income. And a month later the 300% Sales Tax is still in effect, but all the other things are still being 'worked on'. What would be the response of that population do you think?

With that analogy in mind, you might understand why so many are upset about Retcon prices and how that entire system has been handled.

The 'solution' proposed in this interview is not really a solution at all, but simply further experimentation on the part of Cryptic. Experimentation that should happen for a few months on a Test Server, not on Live servers. Give players incentives to run on Test Server if you think there are not enough players. Actually think for a bit and try to innovate instead of relying on what was done in 1999 with Everquest and Ultima Online, or in 2001 with World of Warcraft. All these games may have had rocky starts, but there was not the competition there is now. MMORPG developers need to be quicker to react and smarter in 2009.

We can also note that all these problems were caused by the launch day patch that was suddenly dropped on the player population going from Open Beta -> HeadStart -> Launch.

This introduced the Content Gaps you see now, It introduced the lack of resources, and it introduced the problems with Retcon prices.So after going through more than a year of Beta Cryptic chose to completely destroy all their testing and balancing data with a launch day patch aimed at making people level slower (it would seem).

These are the issues that I'd love Bill Roper to respond to, but it seems no journalist will ask,or will be allowed to ask,these pertinent questions.

Champions is a great game, and will stand beside City of Heroes as the only options for the next few years (NO, DCUO is not going to launch in 2010). The title has great promise, but the developers really need to get their acts together and alter their approach to the problems which they face,in my view.

Posted: Sep 21st 2009 12:33PM Aganazer said

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"These are the issues that I'd love Bill Roper to respond to, but it seems no journalist will ask,or will be allowed to ask,these pertinent questions."

Actually they have addressed most of the issues you're referring to. Maybe not in this very interview, but through various developer responses on forums combined with the State of the Game and in other interviews.

"Experimentation that should happen for a few months on a Test Server, not on Live servers."

Yes, these changes will be tested on the test server before they are pushed to live. They even said specifically that they haven't pushed any of their economic changes onto the live server yet.
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Posted: Sep 21st 2009 12:49PM Gel214th said

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@Aganazer,

I wasn't aware they had been asked about their approach.

on the forums we were given a list of things they would do, features they plan to address. fair enough, these things are Planned to be fixed. In what time frame we do not know.

But my point is that WHILE these things are being fixed, players must deal with the existing problems.

One of these problems which the developers have been criticised for is the cost of Retcons. The approach is to keep Retcon prices as they are, and wait for the antecedent systems to be developed and matured which would make those prices reasonable.

My point is to me the player, that does not make sense. Hence my example of the increase in a sales tax Now, while saying that adjustments to the economy will come later to even things out. That's basically what's being done, and I just don't feel it is the best way. Certainly not for the many players that are being turned off due to changes to the way their characters play due to the rapid release of radical rebalancing patches.

That's the core issue. *NOW* we have a test server, but the problems that exist now were caused before a Test Server system was implemented. Cryptic have acknowledged and have shown that they are fixing and will fix and implement many features and problems in the game.

But while they do that, and that is complicated and takes a lot of time, what do players who are having problems do?
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Posted: Sep 21st 2009 1:33PM Aganazer said

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"But while they do that, and that is complicated and takes a lot of time, what do players who are having problems do?"

You make it sound like having cheap and easy retcon is an essential feature just to play the game. It isn't. All retcon's do is give us a shortcut, and easier path to advancement. In a game that already takes so few hours to complete, its even less of an essential feature.

They also gave EVERYONE a free and complete retcon not long ago and they will be giving everyone another one in a couple weeks.

Between the ability to roll alts and quickly get leveled up, minimal retcons even at their high prices, and the free retcons that have been given out, I am not seeing how this is a serious issue for anyone.
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Posted: Sep 21st 2009 10:50AM (Unverified) said

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They are in a good position if you ask me, released a playable fun game with a lot of room to add on.

Their biggest mistake was underestimating how loudly nerds will whine if you show them a button but don't let it be pressed. If there was no retcon but a high level mission to reset your powers there would not be nearly the grumbling but show the player that they could have had a full reset at any time if only they had more cash and it's a fracking travesty beyond all travesties.

Posted: Sep 21st 2009 10:56AM Celicynd said

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Wow... this is confusing.. page 2 has a different comment section than page 1.

Posted: Sep 21st 2009 12:00PM (Unverified) said

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I really like Champions -- I'm playing it now, in fact, despite having access to the Aion head start.

I do agree with most of what Gel says though. Maybe if they'd had the servers online for more than 2 days a week during the year-long closed beta, they would have the data they needed to figure out the economy, the exp curve, content difficulty, defensive passives, etc... before the game launched.

Posted: Sep 21st 2009 1:57PM Gel214th said

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@derella,

That's something else I concluded. And I could be wrong...but the closed beta system which they implemented contributed greatly to their lack of data and foreknowledge of these issues.

The Closed Beta was two days during the week to a very limited subset of players. There were no 10,000 invitations sent out on websites etc. There seemed to be a very small set of players with some random invitations sent out at intervals. The limited number of people and the restricted playtimes could not have allowed for very much continuous testing on anyone's part.Compare and contrast that with AION's approach to their closed beta. For three days they got tons of data and a wealth of feedback and comments from just about anyone who was interested in the game.

For Champions Online this type of player influx and play testing only came in the week or so of Open Beta. And then again at launch.Most of the number crunching seems to be happening after launch.

And yes, in my view if the Closed Beta had been structured differently this would not have been the case, and it shouldn't be the case. But I don't think there has been any recognition that this was a problem and a contributing factor.

I do not agree with the response that the only way to have caught these issues was after launch. Can't accept that, such a business methodology will not be feasible in the future once there are more MMORPGs going in the marketplace. If the only time an MMORPG developer can get a true indication of the worth of their last 3 years of work is after they launch the product to their customers MMORPGs will fail more than succeed in the marketplace.

Consumers put up with it now when there are but a few AAA Titles and they have been conditioned into thinking they have to, but once there are more AAA MMORPGs out there Consumers will not put up with it. The first smart company to market and use PR to claim a stable launch with a balanced game at launch with the players to back them up, will finally crush the mindset that this cannot be done and cannot be accomplished with an MMORPG.

Customers do not accept buggy launches with Single Player games any more. The same will end up being true for the MMORPG space.

But I guess the game is out,Open and CLosed Beta was so last month,and we all need to move on. I hope the changes planned for Champions Online are rolled out quickly and that in the meantime players enjoy themselves and/or have the patience to wait for these fixes. Because, at least for Retcons, that seems to be all we can do.
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Posted: Sep 21st 2009 12:21PM (Unverified) said

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Wow, whats really amazing is it took 17 days for them to realize they screwed up.

Aion's putting out pre-order numbers and such already. I'm curious to hear what Cryptics end sub's / sales are.

Posted: Sep 21st 2009 12:27PM Zantom said

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Sure the retcon prices could be adjusted some, though for me I only see two real problems here.

One, only powers should cost to remove. The other points and power enhancements shouldn't.

Secondly, and most important, the problem with needing a retcon is the fact that the powerhouse, while a very nice feature, isn't enough of a test for how a power is going to work. Nothing beats the test of a real fight against mobs. The easiest remedy in my opinion is to allow free retcon of the last selected powers (those that would be free to retcon before leaving the powerhouse) until your next level up. That way you can give your selection a try in the "real" world and if it doesn't quite work out the way you expected, you go back in the powerhouse before you level and switch.

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