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Reader Comments (19)

Posted: Sep 17th 2009 6:06PM Keen and Graev said

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Essentially, their game was not like DAOC which had the necessity for grouping, difficult gameplay, and was designed to incorporate the very principles of what WAR is missing into the heart of its design.

Posted: Sep 17th 2009 6:14PM Seraphina Brennan said

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Mmmm hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
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Posted: Sep 17th 2009 6:16PM (Unverified) said

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So they decided to try and dumb down vital aspects of their game model to, I'm guessing here, bring in the WoW crowd. Well, I hope they learned their lessons, and I hope other games have learned it as well. WoW has the kiddie crowd. Let them keep the kiddie crowd. Don't try to get ten million people -- you're not going to do it.

Make a game that a decent amount of people want to play and are passionate about, and you'll have a crowd that plays and pays for years to come. Make a MMO-lite and you'll have a failure. People who want that are playing WoW, and are not going to leave anytime soon.

Posted: Sep 17th 2009 7:58PM fedfierce said

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I completely agree, this needs to happen more. Enough of this MMO-lite bs.
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Posted: Sep 17th 2009 8:38PM (Unverified) said

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Seriously you people need to stop with the "WoW has the kiddie crowd" because that's bullshit. WoW has the MMO crowd. Young, old, immature, mature, it doesn't matter, most people who play MMOs have played wow at some stage of their gaming lives. Love it or loathe it WOW owns the industry because a hell of a lot of people enjoy playing it.

And no I do not play WOW.

I think a lot of WOW subscribers have finished the content on WOTLK and probably make up a huge bulk of the Aion pre-orders. I predict a lot of them will go back to their familiar endgame characters on WOW once they experience the Aion's grind and even more will return with Blizzards next xpac.
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Posted: Sep 17th 2009 9:18PM Anatidae said

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I canceled WoW a while ago... the main reason is because at the end game you can't advance without following the schedule of 24 other raiders. If anything WoW requires FAR more team play than WAR does.

WoW has a nice balance of being able to solo some content while still requiring teaming for the dungeon instances all the way to needing a big raid to accomplish the end-content.

WoW says "Casual" on the surface, but is anything but. WAR is truly casual. You can jump in and out easy. The biggest problem they had was incentives to make it gripping. You don't really earn anything in WAR. Even a lot of armor just looks the same. There just isn't reason to keep exploring the WAR world... or rather an odd collection of valleys.
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Posted: Sep 17th 2009 6:29PM (Unverified) said

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*yawn*
Everyone who's played WAR knows whats wrong with the game, nothing new there.
Now, what I'd really like to see what these left over clowns at Mythic are working on (if at all) in order to fix these "shortcomings".

Posted: Sep 17th 2009 6:32PM TheJackman said

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They forget some stuff:

shitty engine
Dull repetitive endgame
artificial barriers like Tiers, Wards
Awful class balance
poor client and server performance
too many realms huge realm inbalances

Posted: Sep 17th 2009 11:26PM Valdur said

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/agreed

and they are still in their bubble "Mythic is always right".The game failed because they fail to deliver a quality product and targeting the wrong crowd.
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Posted: Sep 17th 2009 6:49PM Agar said

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He still dont get it...What killed the game was:
1)Instances. Noone told us anything about instances till we bought the game.
2)Terrible PvE
3)Problematic Client.

War could have been one of the best. But they just dont get it...

Posted: Sep 17th 2009 7:12PM Xii said

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People group all the time.. in RvR. Open groups are great, and really, all MMOs should have them at this point.

PvE in WAR is not the focus. The quests are pretty easy, yeah. But I doubt that most people still playing care. WAR doesn't have the PvE endgame that EQ/WoW/etc have, and I don't think it should.

The reason people stop playing WAR isn't because of grouping. It's the more glaring issues.

Posted: Sep 17th 2009 7:21PM (Unverified) said

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The problem with WAR PvE wasn't that it was too easy, it's that it was too boring. Dull repetitive fetch and kill quests that lacked even the depth of storytelling present in WoW. PvE was clearly nothing more than a means to an end -- leveling up to get to the next section of RvR. That combined with the extremely disconnected zone system made WAR feel like a collection of dull mini-games you had to grind out before you got to the real game.

WAR RvR is fantastically fun . . . when you can find it. They'd have been much better off going with a skill-based advanced system instead of the leveling system, or just flat out made DAoC 2 in the Warhammer setting.

Public quests were a great idea, but instead of having a few heavily scripted, intensely story driven public quests, they scattered hundreds of the stupid things all over the world and cut 95% of them from the same template. It's the same public quest, just different mobs. Yay. And you could never find anyone to do them with because there were so many of them scattered all over. And they turned them into a faction grind! Gods above! They should have made just a handful of fun PQs and have them give good rewards every time. People who already have the rewards would happily help their friends if it's fun (see dungeons in WoW, people still run those despite no loot options for fun and helpfulness) and if there were only a few of them people would congregate in one place.

The scenarios were fine, but they went from too useful to completely useless. Better to have never had them at all, or make them desirable again.

Mostly though, WAR just came down to a big boring grind unless you could find RvR action all the time. RvR good, everything else dull.

Posted: Sep 17th 2009 8:35PM ColdCoffee said

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"Hickman said that player feedback isn't always reliable or easy to interpret. "

You're honestly blaming the players for your mistakes?

--

So where is the how we plan to fix it segment? Alot of QQ from Mythic these days but its all a bs pr move from them. They try to win the hearts of gamers with this crap. I don't by it one bit, these people are scum.

There is no real direction over at Mythic. You never get a solid answer from them why? because they honestly have no clue how to fix the game. The employees over at Mythic are clowns. Go take a peak at all the gamevids before this came out. See all their faces and how they act. Retards ring a bell? I would never hang out with any of these smucks. Give us our money back! Keep the frowns up

Posted: Sep 17th 2009 11:29PM Valdur said

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@ ArrA

I would rather say there are MMO players and WoW players.MMO players is/have played WoW but WoW players don`t play MMOs.

Posted: Sep 18th 2009 12:17AM (Unverified) said

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Dunno man, I didn't think the PvE was any different then any other MMO I have ever played. Seemed pretty standard to me but yeah, it didn't require you to group all the time...which is what everyone generally cries about if a game DOES make you group.
Anyway, at anypoint there are PQ's that require groups...so...whatever...but I was of the impression that PvE was NOT the core feature of WAR...

maybe I'm wrong...seems to me the guy is getting distracted from the real issue of the game which is giving the players enough of a compelling reason to fight one another.
Watering it down with more focused & difficult PvE is a mistake and will just create a barrier. Why does it matter anyway, you don't even need to PvE in the game anyway. You can level just fine doing PvP.

The economy is a key aspect. Without true crafting & resource collection no one has any stake in it.

As far as world design goes, not having a "real" open world is the issue. Tiered maps is the real problem.

Posted: Sep 18th 2009 11:25AM (Unverified) said

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[snip]
As far as world design goes, not having a "real" open world is the issue. Tiered maps is the real problem.
[snip]

Bingo.
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Posted: Sep 21st 2009 4:59AM (Unverified) said

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Hickman is so far off the point here that its terrifying. WAR had a reasonable launch, then lost all its players. It wasn't because the game was too easy (that's way too subjective: has he done the Shaman grind?) or the economy was a mess (if you can't use RvR to build bonds, you're not going to do it by trading potions).
It was because the endgame RvR was both repetitive and broken. Ultimately, Mythic didn't have the technical ability to provide the "large scale RvR" they were promising and which the game was designed around. I had a lot of fun in WAR while I was there, but trudging round zerging, fighting boring pitched battles outside camps or yomping for ages in a smaller warband to try and disrupt the boring to-and-fro of realm capture got very old.
And then when the fortress sieges were a mess, and bugged to hell - I went Eve.

Posted: Sep 18th 2009 11:43AM (Unverified) said

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What made me quit, and what is reflected in this article is that Mythic just seemed to be playing a totally different game.

Maybe not having official forums causes MMO companies to totally lose all touch with the real issue's players have.

The game wasn't fun once you got to Tier 4, and for a game that promoted how "Fun" was their main design focus well...

It is a good indicator that the Dev's were not on the same page as the players.

Posted: Sep 18th 2009 1:46PM (Unverified) said

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tier 1 good, tier 4 bad, set tier 1 as end game, problem solved.

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