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Reader Comments (24)

Posted: Aug 10th 2009 6:16PM (Unverified) said

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My thoughts, if you have to ask yourself "Is this fun?" after participating in, what is supposed to be the penultimate activity in the game, then its probably not fun.

City sieges are supposed to be the "be-all-end-all" activity in Darkfall, similar to WAR city sieges or WoW raids. If you can't decide if it was truly fun or not I would suggest another game.

Posted: Aug 10th 2009 6:21PM Seraphina Brennan said

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Oh, the point isn't for me to say whether it's fun or not. The point is also not if I like it. The point of all of this was to get inside of the game, play it exactly how others play it, and let readers decide how they feel.

I play the game because I chose to and I wanted to talk about it. My ultimate feelings on it, if you ask me, are irrelevant. I only put them down because someone might care a little bit. XD
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Posted: Aug 10th 2009 6:31PM (Unverified) said

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Nice encore thank you.

Posted: Aug 10th 2009 6:55PM (Unverified) said

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Zerg raids, not fun in SWG, not fun in WAR, not fun in Darkfall.

For me, anyway.

Posted: Aug 10th 2009 7:12PM Minofan said

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A nice (presumably) final read.

I can empathize with your bamboozlement at the end there, as that's much how I felt after 'my' two biggest WAR siege victories also - seemed like hundreds of our side flooding out over the plains chasing the losing side to their warcamp (graphics lowered to pre-Everquest I naturally), but even with the exhilaration it didn't exactly feel like I had had a tangible experience somehow.

Maybe it's that I was playing a support class or the various LoS & Z-axis deficiencies, but even when I was in the heart of the largest scale PvP of my gaming history it just didn't feel like I or it was terribly important - nor that I was doing anything extraordinarily different from my usual health bar watching and sporadic smiting of the closest foe.

I guess that fundamentally there's a difference between 'authentic' sieges and just getting alot of PvP players into a small area, and not a lot of difference between mass PvP and skirmish PvP play experiences at the individual level.

Posted: Aug 10th 2009 8:09PM (Unverified) said

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so what exactly in your opinion is an authentic siege? What could have made the RVR in WAR better and what could make darkfall better? just curious of anyones opinion. Id really like to see large scale pvp worked on
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Posted: Aug 10th 2009 9:02PM Holgranth said

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I have to say I had an epic experience well three actually in WAR during my recent month of play time. All three were large battles over Keeps in which ORDER ACTUALLY WON.

BUT all three were far far FAR outdone by the huge about of "meh" experinces I had.

As it is I have about an Epic experience a week in WoW (Things like leading 12 allaince seige engines loaded with reinforcments to the last minuet resque of a crumbling wintergrasp defense) and lots of Good experinces.

All in all I realise that I can't have epicness 24/7 BUT I CAN have good quality between the truely EPIC moments.

And that is why "Grindfall" will never see my money as long as it remains a grind to get to the epic.
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Posted: Aug 11th 2009 5:48AM Minofan said

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Well not the most creative on my part, but the best siege mechanics I recall would be some of the old Warhammer TT e.g.

* Defensive & offensive siege weapons being slow and requiring careful judgement / fortune but devastating when they hit (in WAR T4 their damage is no greater than a spell, and does darkfall even have any?).

* Varied points of small-scale entry e.g. siege ladders, grappling hooks, tunneling, sapping, Orc-a-pults maybe even stretching to infiltration and bribery. Choke points such as turret doors, where people are effectively duelling or relying on knockbacks to force their way in or out.

* Ideally some sort of mechanic to simulate supply lines and dirty tricks such as poisoning the water supply e.g. in WAR controlling all of the surrounding Objectives would debuff the defenders to represent they are cut off, and one of the rewards for domination (or just great expendituree) could be establishing an attackable warcamp that allows besiegers to respawn nearer. Conversely defenders with full control of the supply lines might be buffed and able to set up a triage camp inside the keep itself (respawning there applies a 60 minute effect which prevents respawning there again).

* I know it's a lot to ask of WAR, but 'proper' LoS / friendly-fire so that mass combat isn't just shield-wall & spank (the big cousing of tank & spank) - have to utilise sound positioning and not go spamming AoE into epic melees.

* Even taking into account the mobile warcamps suggested above, harsher debuff penalties for being killed in a siege - lessening the zerg factor and introducing attrition beyond the basic "I'm so bored of this now, giving up."

* Keeps being able to have sections effectively demolished, temporarily of course.

* Some crazy creative options signature to each faction / species / whatever e.g. Necromancers able to raise NPC undead inside / outside the walls, various flavors of 'paratroopers', LotR style bomb-runners, certain classes / species / guilds being able to turn traitor mid-siege.
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Posted: Aug 11th 2009 6:09AM (Unverified) said

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All very sound options, and mostly fairly accurate, historically speaking, to boot. I approve of your ideas and think you should post 'em to game devs.
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Posted: Aug 10th 2009 8:17PM Keen and Graev said

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Just reading that brought back memories that make me nauseous.

Is it fun?

No.

Posted: Aug 11th 2009 4:24PM (Unverified) said

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I have to agree. The great thing about sandbox type games is building your own community and creating things. But when those things are in jeopardy, the fun goes away. You may get a rush during the defense, but not all rushes are fun. In real war, a close battle that you and your allies barely escape may sound fun, but the realization that you barely did so and almost lost everything turns it into more of a somber relief. Just ask anyone who's been to real war, and they will tell you, its not fun.
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Posted: Aug 10th 2009 9:17PM GRT said

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What a treat this final epilogue was. Thanks for writing it up. This has been one of the best series I've read at Massively for a while.

No way I'm going to play Darkfall, but it's been damned enjoyable to read about you playing it!

Posted: Aug 10th 2009 10:19PM (Unverified) said

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Awesome read. As a guy above said, one of the most entertaining on this site. Almost, almost makes me want to go back to DFO.

Posted: Aug 10th 2009 11:03PM (Unverified) said

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I would like to echo what the last couple posters have said, this has been the most entertaining series on Massively in quite a while. Thanks for the awesome series!

Posted: Aug 10th 2009 11:25PM (Unverified) said

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I heartily agree.
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Posted: Aug 10th 2009 11:31PM (Unverified) said

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Call me a fanboy -- reading the story and watching the video has me counting down the days until I can resub. (I'm taking a work break =/)

Why don't you guys think this is/was fun? (Or: What do you enjoy in an MMO? Leveling?)

Posted: Aug 11th 2009 6:12AM (Unverified) said

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Actually, I think MMOs would all be a lot better if they removed level/skill caps, and represented more actions as skills. Have every action offer the chance of a few experience points, and have those points be invested in skills, stats, and abilities by the player instead.

Why should I have to be shoehorned into one of a few classes, or using only a few types of abilities or skills?
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Posted: Aug 11th 2009 2:39AM Temko said

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some are fun, others are not.

i've participated in over 20 sieges since release, both attacking and defending.

out of all of those sieges i'll always remember 4. i've forgotten some of the others already..

the first was a siege early in the game before magic became prominent, before a lot of the optimisations were in place and before reputations were set up and before cities had gates that closed.

this siege was over 800 people and it was chaos (Harm Vs. LoD) - but what i remember most was the fact that push after push we held and defended.

the other sieges i remember are a double siege on LoD and our city (Yew militia- Frostbourne) which was a lot of running, scouting, talking and tactical planning as we were greatly outnumbered during that siege.(or sieges)

and the last siege is the siege where we took back frostbourne the day after we lost it NWO some weeks past. where we were outnumbered 3 to 1, we had just survived 4 assaults against our wager and we ran to frostbourne with 25 minutes left on the timer.

7 minutes left on the timer we took the city. it is udring these epic sieges that we truly did cheer..



yet some of the other sieges were so boring as that i dont even remember 'm.

there was the cleanup in early game after we broke Harm/Tempest and then the anti-hyperion push, but all of those pretty much got summed up with "we came, we were many, they came, they were many, we AoE'd, they died. we win"

Posted: Aug 11th 2009 11:46AM (Unverified) said

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HUAH!!
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Posted: Aug 11th 2009 11:58AM (Unverified) said

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Been reading since the beginning, nice finish.

p.s. DIE was not with Blackrock, we were there with Necessary Evil picking at Blackrock :)

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