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Reader Comments (11)

Posted: Aug 4th 2009 8:05PM (Unverified) said

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I understand that the "classes" provided in this article are just sample character builds with made-up names, but I think this might just add more confusion to anyone not sure about how FE's character creation works. Some people might actually see stuff like this and go into FE thinking there are preset classes.

Posted: Aug 4th 2009 9:20PM (Unverified) said

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It's rather plaintly stated in the article that they are not classes, but just suggestions put forth by the devs for people who want to get an idea of some good, synergistic skillsets. I think it's a great idea, frankly, because a lot of people will inevitably end up taking skillsets that have no synergy and then complain that the leveling system is broken.
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Posted: Aug 5th 2009 12:57AM Dblade said

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The problem too is that you usually have zero idea as a newbie of how skillsets even work long-term, and there almost always is something in class-based systems that can screw a person over. It's hard to really know what abilities and stats are vital just starting out, and it isn't till your character is gimped you find out, unless you religiously follow forums or wiki.
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Posted: Aug 5th 2009 12:56AM agitatedandroid said

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You know for the briefest of moments I agreed with you.

And then I realized you think people are stupid. I don't blame you. What choice could you have other than to believe that people are stupid. Day in and out we see a world around us catering to a least common denominator that doesn't exist.

Somewhere along the line we managed to convince ourselves we're idiots. We managed to convince ourselves we don't know how to read and comprehend.

Who was it that got us all believing that we're incapable of the simplest levels of reading comprehension while simultaneously using a computer?
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Posted: Aug 5th 2009 1:16AM Dblade said

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Uh, it's not reading or anything. I'll use my own example from a level-based game.

In FFXI you have a weaponskill called Slug Shot. It's a powerful attack, and uses agility as a stat to modify-in other words, the more agility you add, the more base damage you gain and the harder it hits.

Now here is the killer-because of the hidden equations behind the game, you actually do LESS damage if you obey the text and stack AGI-the way the damage equations work you need to add STR instead to see more damage return. It's because of the level correction equation and its pretty damn arcane. Link is at http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/FSTR to show you.

There's not reading, but MMOs are full of crap like this. In Mabinogi there is an entire hidden stat called combat power which determines how a mob checks to you, that is never explained in game, and can make something that could take weeks to train take months.

That's the problem, not basic reading or creativity. MMOs LOVE to throw counterintuitive mechanics that are never explained unless people parse and reverse engineer the equations. In FFXI again, you'd think vitality is good for tanks right? Guess what, it's crap, to the point where in experience you get more potential by gearing exactly the same as a damage dealing class, and tanking armor is considered useless except for one piece.

Skill-based systems are not immune to this, and a lot of times you may find that instead of one stat, an entirely different one may have been needed, or one skill is busted in regards to others.
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Posted: Aug 5th 2009 1:35AM (Unverified) said

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Yay, a game with no classes....so lets make up some classes...

MMO players are such tards sometimes. They moan for something like "no classes" then the first thing they do is start trying to shoehorn their own "classes" into it.
Next thing you will see is the "uber build"...and in a game that has a heavy PvP element like this one does, you know it's gonna happen. There will be the 4 or 5 "must have" skills that everyone will think they are gotta need in order to be "competitive".

I love skill system based games but the reason they don't work is MMO players quickly grind out the math and reduce them to a single build game. Where at least a class based system forces a few different roles into the gameplay.

Posted: Aug 5th 2009 3:13AM Dblade said

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It would help if MMO's also introduced real tactical choice. If its all just random number generators and shoot things dead, you'll see uberbuilds quickly emerge. But if you give enough flexibility where that you can use many builds equally effectively, you reduce the chance of it.

If winning wasn't about just reducing an enemy's HP to zero, but outrunning him, or using environmental traps, or even delaying him till reinforcements arrived, you'd have less of a single build mentality. Or even the difference between guarding land and invading it could provide a lot of freedom-a scout is a very different beast from a lookout.

Most MMOs though just wind up being reduce HP to zero, and everything revolves around that with no real meta-purpose beyond that combat. If they added more i think you'd see skill systems start to flourish.
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Posted: Aug 5th 2009 3:35AM (Unverified) said

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It has to do with the core mechanic of earning "XP" or whatever progression.

If you out run or trap a creature you earn no XP hence progression in current systems. Everything is based on "kills" and is more or less combat centric as you noted.
Although in the past games like SWG did try some more social type professions they ended up devolving into math grinds as the community quickly learned to abuse the system.
The same thing happened there with the flavor of the month templating of professions.
One example I can easily think of is the total lack of a true "thief" arch-type in MMO's. Where non-combat, theft opening locks, doors, finding secret doors / hiding places, picking pockets), evasion and stealth are the primary skills but in 99% of MMO's a "thief" has mutated into a "rogue" which is essentially nothing more then a high DPS, stealther in most cases and that's the only "role" they really have. Such a shame such vast potential is totally wasted.
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Posted: Aug 5th 2009 3:17PM (Unverified) said

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"It would help if MMO's also introduced real tactical choice. If its all just random number generators and shoot things dead, you'll see uberbuilds quickly emerge. But if you give enough flexibility where that you can use many builds equally effectively, you reduce the chance of it.

If winning wasn't about just reducing an enemy's HP to zero, but outrunning him, or using environmental traps, or even delaying him till reinforcements arrived, you'd have less of a single build mentality. Or even the difference between guarding land and invading it could provide a lot of freedom-a scout is a very different beast from a lookout.

Most MMOs though just wind up being reduce HP to zero, and everything revolves around that with no real meta-purpose beyond that combat. If they added more i think you'd see skill systems start to flourish."

QFT, my friend.
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Posted: Aug 5th 2009 1:48AM Macabre 13 said

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QFT

Posted: Aug 5th 2009 1:50AM Macabre 13 said

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Reply fail...

The QFT was meant for torak's comment.

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