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Posted: Aug 18th 2009 6:04PM spamero said

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I've heard goons are recruiting.. .you just need to deposit 500mil to the recruiter first...^^

Posted: Aug 3rd 2009 5:07PM Brendan Drain said

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That's a good point that I think people need to be aware of. Some corps will ask for a deposit as part of the recruitment process but such requests are almost always scams. No matter how good the deal seems to be, remember that no corp should ask for a deposit.
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Posted: Aug 3rd 2009 5:45PM (Unverified) said

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In attempting to play EVE Online, I heeded your advice and those of others (including advice sites suggested by CCP) regarding learning the game and finding a corporation. I've been playing for about a half year now, and my repeated attempts at a successful experience have fallen flat. Despite having over 700mil Isk in the bank and finally able to start flying battleships, I'm about to end my account. Why?

(1) The tutorial does teach you the basics of the game, but playing solo beyond that (be it PvE missions or the grind of mining) makes Asian MMORPG grindfests look positively entertaining in comparison. Obviously you're right, the answer is in corporations and team play. So...

(2) First I tried EVE University. Unfortunately, griefer groups put the University under virtually continuous war declarations. This means that anyone getting in-game, hands-on training would be vulnerable to PvP ganking anytime, anywhwere. While EVE U. has various responses, the main one is holding "classes" in text chat. Imagine attending a class where the teacher and students could only communicate via texting. So much for EVE U as a fun learning experience.

(3) To get into the real action, I discovered that I needed to get into low-sec or 0.0 space. That's where the big financial rewards exist, and also where 95% of the PvP occurs. Flying solo there is virtually a death warrant, especially for someone with a few months experience, so joining a corp would be a fine idea, except....

(4) Sorting through all the corps is a huge pain. Every day there are 100+ corps posting for new players. Since corps are player-run, most of the posts really don't provide enough info to help you decide. So you need to check websites about them (where available), or go in-game and try to get a response via chat, corp recruiting channels, in-game email, etc. Even then, I gradually discovered that most of the really interesting, desirable corps I'd enjoy joining didn't advertise at all. This led me to the following conclusion:

(5) Actually FINDING a good corporation is virtually impossible. Nearly all the experienced corporations full of veteran players are comfortable with their existing circle of friends. Admittedly it's a slowly fading circle, but relatively few are willing to chase the increasingly rare crop of newbies entering the game. Instead, these corps require at least 5-6 million SP (skill points), which takes 4-5 months to accumulate, and increasingly those corps require 10-15 million SP, which takes a year or more. What these corps are really saying is that they don't want newbies. They want veteran players who already know how to handle all the complexities of the game. Teaching someone how all the screwy interfaces work, all the weirdnesses of ship design and PvP fighting is just too much trouble.

(6) SUMMARY:I found EVE to be a ridiculously complicated game without any mechanism for teaching players how complicated fighting like PvP really works. Corps that have the knowledge are only interested in other players who are similarly expert. Young corps willing to take newbies typically don't have either the game expertise or the teaching ability to make a newbie competitively useful in the game. In fact, these newbie corps are frequently demoralized and destroyed in their first war experience against larger, veteran corps.

While I applaud your article on EVE, I think you failed to probe deeply enough to discover the dark, unpleasant underbelly of the EVE experience. CCP has evolved the game by giving bigger, richer and more powerful things to veteran players. The game mechanics reward people who maintain their subscription for YEARS. At this point there is a yawning chasm between the veteran player experience and the newbie experience - a gap I tried to cross and failed. There is no reasonable way for newbies to find a stable corp that will help them be successful in the game. I might dabble in EVE a bit longer, but there are too many great new MMORPGs showing up every month. Why should I beat my head against CCP's self-made anti-newbie wall for much longer?

- Elle "Betji" Chase

Posted: Aug 3rd 2009 8:14PM Wgraves said

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give us a shot.

splu.guildlaunch.com

or get us in game @ SPLU PUBLIC channel
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Posted: Aug 4th 2009 12:53PM (Unverified) said

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No offense, but I think Graves just made my point. A few pithy sentences about his guild would have told me SOOO much about what they are and aren't doing in the game. Instead, he wants me to roam his website in hopes of discerning it, or seeing if someone is awake on the guild recruiting channel when I log in. Multiply this by 100 and you see why even newbies who try to self-educate struggle and ultimately give up.

- Elle "Betji" Chase

Posted: Aug 5th 2009 1:22PM sobelius said

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@Elle Chase

You've posted a really well examined explanation of what a serious solo game player trying to join the "deeper" EVE experience is like.

I also think you hit the nail on the head about CCP rewarding long-time players. But that's really not much different from any MMO that provides content for characters who've capped out. Rarely does a company create new content for entry-to-low-level players because it's often not re-used. To CCP's credit, their tutorials and such for PvE are good for getting to know the basics. Many companies never revisit introductory content or create tutorials for new players beyond what they create at launch.

I don't find EVE overly complex, but it may seem that way compared to most other MMOs. It really is very data-driven and I've heard the term "spreadsheet" MMO used ot describe it. At least you are provided lots of data in-game, unlike other games where you have to find web sites that post data or metrics about content.

To me, EVE at it's heart is a social experience bounded by a few game activities. There really aren't that many real activities in the game: you can engage in combat, you can trade, you can harvest resources, and you can make stuff. Not too different from most MMOs. What makes it tough to break into EVE is, as you've so well pointed out, the gulf between veteran players who know each other and the hordes of the unwashed masses. The vets have corps, alliances, and the money/equipment/skills to have an impact on both locations in the game and what other players can do in those locations. To me, that's the social part of the game which gives playing the game more meaning than simply running PvE missions (which *can't* add meaning to a game because the mission mobs don't react to your decisions over time, or respond to them, or decide to do new or unexpected things, or take actions that affect you when you're not online -- all things that other players can do).

What I would love to see in EVE is an invasion by a massively superior NPC species (something like the Borg, or worse), which threatens everyone in the game. It might get the verteran players to recruit/train new people out of sheer necessity to defend their corps/stations/systems. The invasion could also be a periodic thing, specifically designed to shake up the status quo from time to time - possibly even levelling the playing field. Yes, you might upset a few vet players, but you might also encourage a whole new crop of players to get more deeply invovled.

Posted: Aug 6th 2009 1:55PM (Unverified) said

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Elle,

I came to Eve Online with no prior MMO experience and without knowing what to expect - about a year ago. I've had a good time so far, and do not entirely recognize your story. I suspect your experience might have been different if you would have spent some time with a newbie/highsec corp, in order to get some real experience, to get to know the EVE universe a bit better before jumping in 0.0.

I know there have been players who've gone straight to 0.0, but they usually already had friends there.

I would like to invite you to the corp I'm currently a member of, but we're at war atm so I'm not sure it's polite to invite you now:) Before the war, we were a real life comes first corp, consisting of a few dozen active players (around 200 in total), young and old. Most of us mine and run missions and do some trading, but there's also a growing interest in pvp. We're learning a lot in this regard from the current wardec! Due to this war (actually a series of wardecs) most of our younger less experienced players are now member of a temporary dummy corp, and the older members are doing pvp against the enemy. We hope to end the war soon, and get back to normal.. More information can be found here: http://asb.wassup.name/#home

Cheers,
Sered

Posted: Aug 12th 2009 9:29PM (Unverified) said

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(Canteen Charlie glances over at the burnt tattered sleeves of the lone pilot sitting at the booth you only choose when you want to be alone. He wonders what her story was this sullen soul with the glancing eyes, jealous at the comraderie around her. Another sip from from his half drank shot of aged Jack and he figures a pop in low-sec on a solo run brought this wounded soul to his bar. It's the same story he'd heard a hundred times, glancing out the muddied windows at the dented ruptures, crushed domi's and barely limping shuttles that brought the rest of the rabble here. It's a hard world, this universe of Eve and he's thinking she's either got the teeth to take it or it might wanna catch the next transport off system.

Then he looked around his little ramshackle tavern at the faces and the smiles he'd grown to love. All pilots that found their way here sooner or later, looking for adventure, hunting for ISK, tellin' high stories of the capital ships they'd beaten with just a few piddly rockets shot just the right time and place or the asteroids they'd mined the size of a mountain with just a little Osprey. They'd all come in alone at some point, down here at Loners. But then got to become family.

And this pilot he was a bit taken by. There was something tough in that manufactured sternness she was using to keep the casual chatter'ers away. He thought, maybe she'd hold her own when a Titan's teeth are smiling down on her at 100k with nothing but structure lights showing on her armor gauge. He'd seen it before but only in the rarest of eyes. The grit that knows you might not be comin' home but your certainly not going down alone. With his curiosity peaked he ushered over the barman and said, 'Bo, think she could use some of the 25'.

Charlie turned on his rusty stool stump of a chair and saw the scotch gave her a little glow. Bo nodded back at him as he left her table and she'd past the first test. His targeting of a quality pilot was faster than any sensor boosted interceptor Charlie'd ever come across. Elle didn't glance around at her patron's gift just downed without thinking twice, then wiped the rest that was left on her scared greasy hands and got up to head out towards her ship.

"Leavin' so soon? The stars ain't goin' away," Charlie told her. But Elle didn't turn back, just muffling, "Don't care to see 'em anymore" then pushed opened the rusted wooden doors and Charlie said. "But you can't run from 'em 'either."

He watched her stop for a moment, the fire in her belly he knew must be churning to stay, but she kept on walking through the old rusty doors and the smell of fuel and dusty old dreams came sweeping back behind her as she headed towards her ship.

Bo kicked up his knee and turned to Charlie, "Thought she had it, that one." Charlie just grinned seein' his face in his eyes as the flare of red light from the burst of her engines shone through the window. He knew what she was doing. And on board her ship she looked out her window at the old dusty sign above the little end of the world tavern...Whiskey Loners - Korama 6 and smiled.) She thought she might be back.

[From the diary of Canteen Charlie, head drinker, top dartsman and all around son-of-a-b***ch, Whiskey Loners - Korama 6 - RSS, August 2009]

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