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Reader Comments (37)

Posted: Aug 1st 2009 12:25AM (Unverified) said

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Quite aside from accusing Massively of bias, am I the only one totally underwhelmed by the video?

It wasn't a butterfly effect at all; the only difference your actions made was that you got to see what was going on. Your choice was insignificant-- the only payoff bing "you might hook up with someone doing something more interesting!"

Posted: Aug 1st 2009 8:42AM (Unverified) said

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/agree. I'm a bit disappointed in the marketing bullsh8 factor in this video.

For one, those fleets are not going to a battle involving "thousands of players", because Eve's infrastructure and client cannot handle a single battle of thousands of players. Blob (aka BoB, or Band of Brothers) and Goonswarm might be able to field those numbers in a single mobilization, but there's no freakin' way they're all jumping into the same zone and having it out.

For another, they do not have hundreds of thousands of people to be affected by this battle, because only those two alliances are affected and no one else really gives a crap lol. The rest of the universe will start caring when their resources are involved, not before.

Related note, from my time in Eve, I sincerely doubt that they have "hundreds of thousands of people" at all, because virtually everyone doubles and triples accounts to take advantage of Eve's "free" offline training. (Which incidentally means you're paying extra subs for said "free" training, and proves P.T. Barnum's business model can stand the test of time. But I digress.)

So you can reliably divide Eve's sub numbers by 2.5 or so to find the number of actual players. Then subtract everyone who is not in those alliances, and you get maybe a few thousand in those alliances and a few hundred people who would be in that big battle.

Don't get me wrong, those aren't bad numbers, but it totally puts the lie to the marketing bullsh8 here. I've considered resubbing to Eve from time to time mainly out of boredom with the rest of the MMO field, but seeing fraudulent advertising like this is a big negative for me.
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Posted: Aug 3rd 2009 2:05PM (Unverified) said

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@ dainsmail-1

You obviously have not been in New Eden in a LONG time. Offline training was taken away last year, and Bob was defeated by the goons a few months ago. This video is in NO WAY fraudulent, and quite frankly you must not have gotten far in eve if you think that the effects of a huge battle will not effect the rest of the universe. Prices rise and drop based on these battles. 1000 player fleet fights are quite rare, but they do happen and the game does handle it.

Maybe you should look into what you are saying before you say it. Its been at least 3 expansions since offline training was removed.... A Lot has changed.
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Posted: Aug 7th 2009 8:35AM (Unverified) said

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Thanks for the update, but I think you're confused, I wasn't referring to ghost training (training that used to still occur on accounts that had been cancelled). I was referring to the whole "I'm not playing, but my character is still training while I pay the sub" deal, which afaict is still the case.

To me, being able to just have your character skill up while you pay a sub is equivalent to just buying one on Ebay (just over time). And that of course leads to lots of paid alt accounts just out there getting all skilled up, which throws off the player numbers by multiples. Also, it's great for CCPs bottom line, but sucks for anyone who joins hoping to win by their skill instead of their character's skills (their character will never catch up to the others).

Regarding the battle sizes, I did see that some people are claiming bigger (400-600 player) battles, but nobody's commenting about the UI freezes that used to make PvP just stupid. BITD, their dumb UI design had your client calling the server to fill in the menus every time you clicked, and freezing you totally until it did fill them in lol. Jump 50 ships through a gate where 50 other ships were waiting, and it was 10-15 seconds between clicks. Just omg wth ridiculou).
I did check the patch notes, and Apocrypha had several "we reduced the client database calls for better performance", so maybe that's better? You tell me, sounds like you play.

But I'm kind of inclined to stand my ground on my take that this is full of "we don't care what the truth is as long as we make a cool video that impresses the HQ people so we can get paid" marketing stuff. Remember, they can blame anyone and anything for the cancellations as long as they can take cred for new subs.
But hey, if you like it, cool. I just wish it didn't have those problems (and many others, don't get me started on ppl buying up manufacturing slots lol) so I could play it too.
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Posted: Aug 9th 2009 3:11PM (Unverified) said

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Sigh, well I learned again why Eve is just not worth the effort. I just trialed to see if they'd fixed as much as people (^^) say, and while the overall game has always been very attractive, and they've changed a few of the more obvious PITAs, their batsh8-crazy skill system is still as much of a fun-destroying, gameplay-ganking time-sink as it was back in the day.

So, no thanks again CCP, I play the games, the games don't play me lol. It's really sad- if they fixed their training system (and by that I mean reduced its size by 2/3), Eve would have every sci-fi mmo player of any kind subbed up in a couple of months. Starting with me.
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Posted: Jul 29th 2009 2:37PM (Unverified) said

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To me it has always seemed like Massively has reported on the MMO news that is available. If a game is putting out new video's and updates, or even advertisements it is likely that Massively will pick up on it, and write at the very least a short article. If your favorite MMO isn't getting the coverage that EVE is, chances are they aren't releasing anything to write about.

Even though I tried and didn't like EVE, I must admit that their single server for the game, easily beats anything else that is being done. I really hope that it is a feature that other developers will eventually pick up and attempt to implement as well.

Posted: Jul 29th 2009 2:44PM (Unverified) said

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I've been playing it for a few months now, and whenever i venture into lowsec, I get to be the miner. And there's never been any rescue. Frustrating.

Posted: Jul 29th 2009 3:00PM SgtBaker said

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Join a good corp - bring some corpmates to protect you next time - much less frustrating.
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Posted: Jul 29th 2009 3:06PM Wensbane said

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This is why I always say that EVE is the very definition of an MMORPG. When it comes to that first "M", nothing else comes close.

I only wish the gameplay itself could be slightly more... exciting.

Posted: Jul 29th 2009 5:10PM (Unverified) said

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I've played EVE, and sometimes I like it, sometimes I don't. I think it's really something you need to do with friends, and the only friend I have who plays it isn't always around when I am.

I have to say, as much as I like the video, I expected more of it. Having played the game, there are far more cleverer ways they could have highlighted the Sandbox effect then simply you being able to join a big fight because you happened to save a miner - big fights happen all the time.

For example, the fact that that the miner was able to complete it's mission mean't that the alliance had that much more stockpiled resources, which mean't that they had more potential capital to play with, and could then outfit more of their pilots with better ships, thus allowing them to win the battle/war/whatever...

But hey, it's still pretty good. Whilst I don't agree with the accusation surrounding Massively's EVE coverage, as a journalist myself, I have to question the news value of this. Yeah it's interesting, but is there really nothing else you could talk about? I mean you HAVE talked about EVE's open world design before, this video just hits home the message for people who probably don't read Massively anyway...

Posted: Jul 30th 2009 12:10AM Graill440 said

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Massively does indeed post more articles about EVE than any other game.

As for the butterfly effect, here is my take on it....... as per the popular theory,


Devs screw and decieve players.............players leave.............a fact we all saw low those years ago, and still valid today!! (grin) Vive la free trials to get those sub numbers up.

.....damn, all this hate and i still have some love in my heart for it.

Posted: Jul 30th 2009 3:02AM Lamthara said

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Beautiful video. Really.
And i guess it explain quite well how things works in New Eden more than that ohhhhh-shiny-spaceships-trailer-videos ^^

The only thing that this video "forgets" to point out is that differently from the other mmo, since eve is all about the choices someone takes, it's the gamer that can make the difference between fun and boredom...



...and that probably all those badgers and hulks were there because they had to suck the hell out of those asteroids belts to repay the loses they got in the war :P

Posted: Jul 30th 2009 3:14AM Johny B said

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And that my friends ... is one: totally true; two: awsome; three:u wow players are just jealous :P

Posted: Jul 30th 2009 11:00PM Belmondo said

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The video doesn't really carry through on its idea. As it started, I expected that the Lone Wolf encounter would be the first link in a series of encounters that, at the end, demonstrated how your event over here affected an event way over there. This idea, if done right, would be a great way to show how a sandbox game can be different from a theme park game. But this video really just shows how you can meet someone in a virtual world, and how that new friend can lead you to some fun in-game experience. That can happen in any MMO.

Posted: Aug 2nd 2009 4:33AM (Unverified) said

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This is a really awesome way to advertise a game. It's just a pity EVE is nothing like this.

Posted: Aug 5th 2009 3:52AM (Unverified) said

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Today, while I was on my way to a station to pick up a skill book I had bought, I came across a ship that was "wanted", with a bounty on it. So I attacked. He destroyed my ship, and I had to spend about an hour assembling and fitting a new ship. While udocking the new ship, on the way to pick up more weapons and ammo, I heard an explosion. I checked the overview and found a wreck. I flew over to it and stole the leftover cargo. Now, a certain corporation's members can attack me at will because I stole their cargo.

Not exactly as "epic" as the butterfly thingy, but unexpected things can happen, even in "safe" Empire space in EVE.

Posted: Aug 10th 2009 6:03PM (Unverified) said

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I really like Eve and it doesn't get much of a boost. I do enjoy playing it, but I think a lot of the bad press from the sandbox design is kinda buried in the video. The lone pilot in his Frigate chases off a group of pirates - yeh like that happens. The problem with the sandbox is that unless you started playing when Eve first came out you are too far behind the field. What this means for a new player is that you are gonna spend a lot of time stuck inside a station being camped by players with higher skill points until you have been playing for about a year.
It doesn't matter if you stay in high security space or go to null sec (0.0). You basically have 2 choices, stay in a noob corp for a year and be bored out of your mind, or join a player corp where you could actually learn something, except that a griefer gang will wardec your high-sec corp and - hey presto your stuck in a station again (unless you just like being killed). So your stuck, you got all your ships one shotted and your out of ISK (EvE money) because you can't actually get out of a station and earn any.
Now there is a way out of this, you can buy (legally) Pilot Licence Entensions (game cards) and sell them in game for what seems like a lot of in game money, currently around 350 million ISK. Then you can spend all this buying bigger ships to get blown up by pirate griefer gangs, simply becasue the way the system works means that you will not have the skills to take on the guys that have been playing longer no matter how skilled a player you may be. So who buys these in game cards from you?? funnily enough its the guys that have been playing for a long time, they earn more than enough ISK from destroying new players to buy them and so they also play for free. The turnover rate for new players is about 8 months, so most new players give up before they get to the point that they could actually start enjoying the game.
The so called vast regions of this sandbox space have ALL already been conquered by big corporations, so unless you either join one or try to make one to match one of these you will never do as they did, simply because you are too late, there are no unexplored regions left (unless you count wormholes).

So, while I love playing the game, I can never understand why people bother sitting in a station for a year or so before getting enjoyment from it. The game is very PvP based which is good, but dont expect to log in as a new player and jump to the rescue of a mining barge and heroically chase off a whole heap of pirates, if one guy in a frigate can chase em off, the miner probably wasn't in any danger anyway and would have probably just launched drones to take em out.

The game none the less has some great features, but its growth is seriously stunted by older players who play for free at the cost of newer players buying game cards and then giving up. Unless you have a years worth of time to waste untill you have enough skills to compete, I wouldnt bother. My biggest regret is that I tried Eve when it first came out and stopped playing after a short while, then came back to it 2 years later. If I had just paid subs and logged on and trained skills for 2 years (and NOTHING else) I would have an uber toon that could kick some ass now, and could have fun gaining the ingame skills that come after without being camped in a station by some mindless zombies. Which is why people can actually make money from selling accounts with lots of skill points - why wait a year when you can buy the time someone else put in?

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