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Reader Comments (26)

Posted: Jul 25th 2009 8:21AM SgtBaker said

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If I was trolling oh' ever so slightly, I might say I prefer games that don't lock content behind silly rinse-and-repeat-click-and-point-dances and random loot token drops.

But then again - each to their own. ;-)
I play EVE, so I guess I'd be one of those who prefer PvP.

Also, no. I don't raid. Not even casually.

Posted: Jul 25th 2009 8:31AM Brendan Drain said

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In a sense, aren't EVE PvP fleets a type of raiding? :D
In EVE we may not have MMO raids in the traditional meaning but we have PvP raids into enemy territory, attacks against enemy POS etc.
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Posted: Jul 25th 2009 8:55AM SgtBaker said

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Ah, touche, good sir :-) Of course it's a question of definition.

I guess the 0.0 POS-siege-spamfare could be the closest equivalent to more traditional fantasy MMO raids. Setting alarm clocks to 03am in order to get online to destroy a POS that has a bad stront-timer with couple of hundred of your closest Alliance friends.. victory might reward you the entire system Sovereignty (the shiniest thing that EVE endgame has to offer).

I'm too old and quite not dedicated enough for that stuff (kids, family, RL/work taking the priority), I prefer small(er) scale skirmish fleets (but, for the record, I was in 49-U when it "peaked").
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Posted: Jul 25th 2009 8:30AM Macabre 13 said

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I've dabbled in raiding, but can't/refuse to participate often due to stringent scheduling and the amount of hours per session required to participate.

Gaming *should* be something most of us do to relax and enjoy our free time, especially those of us with careers and families. If an aspect of a game requires strict schedules, tedious organization, and hours upon hours of dedictation per day/week, it just doesn't feel right at all. I get enough of that with real life, I don't need it from my choice of entertainment. And as easy as it might be to avoid that aspect of a given game, it's usually where all the focus and greatest shinies are, so you tend to feel left behind.

MMO's need to adopt far more "soft-grouping" mechanics to avoid the pitfalls of organized raiding. I've read JGE is going to focus on this approach, at least in one area of the game, and I'm excited about that.

Posted: Jul 25th 2009 11:33AM elocke said

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Completely agree with you Macabre. I'm a casual raider, if that is even possible. I want to raid, but the time it takes to do it, get ready for it, etc. Is far too much time to invest. I have kids, a wife, other hobbies, other games, so raiding, in its current state is pretty much off limits for the most part.
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Posted: Jul 25th 2009 8:36AM AlamoeJones said

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No. My complete inability to ever hit level cap has kept me from that part of games.

Posted: Jul 25th 2009 8:59AM Crsh said

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I "seriously" raided in WoW vanilla and most of BC, in raiding guilds with stiff requirements for all members, mandatory farming for flasks/repair gold/whatnot, getting yelled at over Vent for standing half a pixel to the left of where I should've been, going after every encounter for 3-4 hours @ 5-6 nights/week, etc.

It was fun while it lasted, but I guess I grew out of it, I really can't be bothered anymore. Furthermore, I've developed a deep hatred against hardcore raiders who tackle raid content like it's 1) serious business and 2) more important than real life. Live and learn, I guess.

Posted: Jul 25th 2009 10:46AM JaySpeed said

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I have never and will never be yelled at over ventrillo or in game chat. Gaming is not my job and I don't want to be barked at like I'm in the military. That's why that old Leroy Jenkins video is soooooo funny. The leader is giving out orders and Leroy does his suicide run wiping everyone. Everyone's reaction to him in voice was the best though. Some people take gaming WAY toooooo serious. It's only a game and it's meant to be fun. If barking orders, being bossy, and forcing others to play for hours every night to raid is your idea of fun then you need to relax, unplug, and go outside. There is this thing called the sun and fresh air. It's pretty nice actually. The MMO called real life is better than any game yet created.
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Posted: Jul 25th 2009 9:03AM (Unverified) said

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I raided in WoW before BC came out. After a few months of doing the same thing every raid, and arranging my free time around a raid schedule, I realized I wasn't actually having fun. So I stopped.

Posted: Jul 25th 2009 9:11AM (Unverified) said

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Naah, I'm from Philly. EAGLES!

Posted: Jul 25th 2009 10:11AM (Unverified) said

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I'm raiding casually 3-4 evenings a week and always roll my eyes on the angst some people associate with the concept of raiding :P. It's 2009 and up to the individual to choose how much time they invest in their hobby that they share with other *gasp* real people over the internet.

Posted: Jul 25th 2009 10:43AM (Unverified) said

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No, I'm not a raider. I prefer PvP, its always fresh than doing the same things over and over just waiting for the items to poof then quarrel over it like kids doing with toys.

Posted: Jul 25th 2009 11:02AM Wensbane said

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Definitely not a raider. I enjoy many other features often seen in MMORPGs, like solo/group quests, regular small group dungeons, PvP (both instanced and open), crafting, etc., but I always stay as far away from raids as possible!

I've tried it several times in the past and my conclusion is that the LAST thing I need, while enjoying one of my favourite hobbies, is some guy I don't even know, yelling at me because I missed the perfect timing on my last heal, or because my "DPS" isn't "optimized".

In the end, these games are simply another form of entertainment (not a second job), and I'll enjoy them as I damn well please. After all, I pay for that privilege.

Posted: Jul 25th 2009 11:07AM (Unverified) said

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Yes, I am a raider, but a very very new one. Always wanted to, ever since vanilla WoW...but the right guild to do this with has always been impossible to find (until it happened unexpectedly this year). It's been a super fun experience so far. The scheduling thing doesn't bother me (I prefer marking a raid on my calendar and have fellow guildies show up on schedule rather than logging in randomly and hoping there are people to do something with at that particular time -- too often there aren't).

Better yet, my guild is mature. No one screams at anyone over Vent. Being a group of considerate, thinking adults, there is no drama (over loot or otherwise). We raid, we do other things than raid, we joke and we have fun. Knowing how common it is to fall into a cruddy guild environment, I feel very very lucky to have found these people.

Posted: Jul 25th 2009 11:12AM Minofan said

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Nope: I've never raided, and don't imagine I ever shall.

The time requirements are too imposing, but more than that I simply have no desire to play with folks who take games 'hardcore'-seriously.

Posted: Jul 25th 2009 11:17AM Jenks said

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I raided a lot in EQ, and a little in WoW. I never found it much fun, so no, I don't consider myself a raider.

Posted: Jul 25th 2009 11:50AM (Unverified) said

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I tried raiding for a little while in WoW and honestly, I hate having a full-time job and an ass for a boss as it is...I don't want to be scheduled to play a dumb game and get yelled at by some nerd with no life, either.

My wife raided a lot with our guild and she'd be up until 2am trying to down 1 or 2 stupid bosses, and then wouldn't even get any gear out of it. That happened to me ONCE, and that was the last time I raided. Gear definitely isn't everything, however I'm not going to play for 4 hours with little to no payoff.

I like MMOs, but I don't live my life by them.


Posted: Jul 25th 2009 11:53AM (Unverified) said

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Like the above poster (Jenks), I raided a lot in EQ1 (and EQ2) and a little in other games (including WoW).



I believe that unless you are a hardcore, cutting-edge guild trying to conquer NEW raid content -- without using someone else's gameplan -- then raiding is about as challenging as coordinating a high school marching band.

Granted, coordinating a high school marching band is challenging (and stressful) -- for the drum major. If everyone does what they are supposed to do, at the right time and in the right place, you win. Sounds like multi-player "Simon Says" to me. . .



Anyway, I no longer raid and actually *retire* my characters soon after they reach max-level. Crazy? Maybe, I am just an alt-aholic who loves to experience all the game can offer (except for raiding), learn and play every class effectively plus build a team of self-sufficient crafters.



That brings me to a gripe about most MMOGs: Why is raiding considered the "ultimate" goal of the game and everyone in such a rush to reach max-level? Raiders comprise less than 10% of the player population but developers spend over 25% of their resources appeasing them. Those figures are just made-up, of course, but I believe it to be reasonably accurate.

I feel that all content should scale to size of the party experiencing it; similar to CoH. The value of drops should scale too, no argument there, but just allow us to complete quests and experience the entire game without being FORCED TO RAID.

Posted: Jul 25th 2009 11:55AM (Unverified) said

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Hey, my "opinion" and "rant" tags were scrubbed out. Oh well, guess I should not use HTML-style tags within a post. Doh!

Posted: Jul 25th 2009 12:10PM (Unverified) said

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I raid 2 nights a week, for about 3 hours at a time. We're not at the end of Ulduar, but we're solidly in the middle, and exploring the new content together. Quite a bit of fun, really.

Yes, I'm a raider, with a family and a full-time job. And a social life outside of the game as well. :D

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