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Reader Comments (56)

Posted: Jul 14th 2009 9:40AM Snow Leopard said

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Character progression has always been a double-edged sword for me. On the one hand, it feels great to develop your character and watch them grow over a long period of time into something powerful. However at the same time, you run the risk of leaving your friends behind, or if not leveling fast enough, watching them leave you behind. It just kind of creates an environment where one needs to play just as much as their friends to keep up or else they find themselves playing and almost entirely different game. It also makes it extremely intimidating for a new friend to join in when he finds out it will take him months to get where you are.
I'm looking forward to seeing what The Secret World's content system will do to change this. Apparently, they're promising some system where all players can experience all content whenever they want. Could be interesting.

Posted: Jul 14th 2009 9:45AM (Unverified) said

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Endgame period. When you hit the mark, then rerolling again for another toon is the most I hate about MMO's. It's like washing your clothes then rinsing it again and again.

Posted: Jul 14th 2009 10:22AM Valdur said

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I will say the solofest infesting all recent MMO games and their boring endgame where you have nothing to do than doing the same instance over and over.

Posted: Jul 14th 2009 10:32AM (Unverified) said

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Biggest dislike of MMOS? The lifeless skilless griefers that hate the world because they are still living in momys basement and have no friends. They tend to run around the starter zones at max level one shotting people thinking it's fun.

Other then that I love MMOs!!!

Posted: Jul 14th 2009 10:33AM Jhaer said

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Why, when someone brings up grouping, do people immediately jump to a concept of forced grouping? Personally, I hate "forced" grouping, where advancement is impossible without a group, but as of yet, no game (not even EverQuest) has REQUIRED a group to play. I just want a game where grouping has advantages. Soloing should be possible, but the advantage of soloing is that you don't have to put up with other people; so grouping, since you have to put up with other people, should be better than soloing in some other aspect, be it experience gain or loot rewards or something. Instead, most games make soloing the best loot (no sharing) and the best exp (splitting exp in groups only works if a group can kill faster than solo in enough numbers to overcome the split, but in most games now the spawns are designed to be possible solo, which often means slower spawn rates... a group just doesn't have enough targets to be able to beat solo exp gain).

Posted: Jul 14th 2009 10:47AM Innocentte said

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Heh. You should have tried EQ2 when it first released (not now, of course). After a certain early level (14 to 18, something like that), there was NO content to do Solo. Period. No solo quests. No solo mobs to grind. No solo content at all. That was the 'Vision'. Forced grouping to the max. It was for the fail, of course.
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Posted: Jul 14th 2009 11:03AM Jhaer said

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I did play EQ2, and even at the beginning there wasn't forced grouping. Grouping was a heck of a lot easier than soloing after a point, but soloing was possible, because otherwise all that time I spent soloing must have been a figment of my imagination. Most people just assume soloing is not possible is soloing is hard and slow. Every class in every game can solo, you just have to understand the mechanics and the limitations and find a place in the game where the design allows you to play solo. Most people would just rather be able to play anywhere solo with no work and no restrictions, which is fine, but you have to willing to acknowledge that it complete invalidates grouping.

You may hate "forced grouping", but I hate "completely marginalized pointless grouping".
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Posted: Jul 14th 2009 10:48AM happyfish said

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My biggest gripe is linear quest progressions. First you get sent to a zone to kill wolves, then you get sent back to collect their paws (Which for some reason each wolf only has one, or none), then you are sent back to the elite boss you accidentally killed 3-4 times already. This drives me nuts and in many instances I just say screw it, you're on your own buddy.

Posted: Jul 14th 2009 1:22PM Anatidae said

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I agree. Mythic said they would get rid of that by having it so that if you killed a mob that was attached to a quest, it counted. But, well, that never happened. You can kill some mobs and turn the count in for xp - but you still have to go to the quest giver and get the quest in order to have most kills count. Even if you already killed 1000s of the quest giver's target.
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Posted: Jul 14th 2009 10:55AM (Unverified) said

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Forced grouping is the worse.

Sometimes I LIKE to group, and if my friends are on then of course I love to group with them, but there's plenty of time where I just want to do my own thing, or no one else is on. Groups can be great. They can also be a major time sink and pain in the butt. It can take forever to get the right group makeup, then even longer to gather everyone together. The more people you have together in a group, the higher chance you have of someone being called away by real life. Oh the tank's girlfriend is sceaming at him. The healer's dog just threw up on the baby. The mage's baby just bit his dog. Whatever. Half the time I wind up not wanting to group because I know I'm prone to interruption IRL and don't want to burden a group with that.

Grouping can be encouraged without the hamfisted "all or nothing" method. Give XP bonus for the group, give better loot that has a better chance of dropping for a group. But don't lock out a player from the content altogether just because he might play at odd hours, or be in a bit of an antisocial mood, or doesn't have the patience to wait for getting the right group together.

Another thing that irks me is excessive travel time. I have to commute for about an hour and a half every day. I'll be darned if I want log into my virtual pretendy funtime world and....have to commute.

Posted: Jul 14th 2009 11:07AM Tom in VA said

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Great post, Chadly!

I often wish WoW (and other MMOs) offered a UI option to turn off all "!" quest indicators "!" for group quests or group quest series (quests series that lead up to a group quest or dungeon quest).

OR perhaps

allowed players to complete instance/group content in "group mode" or "solo mode", with perhaps different quests and rewards available for each mode.

Something like this would allow a player to run an instance like Deadmines, for example, either alone or in a group (or both ways, if you wanted) for different rewards and quests.
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Posted: Jul 14th 2009 11:21AM (Unverified) said

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Tom,

Age of Conan has something like what you described for the world zones, where you can optionally choose to run in "epic" mode, for increased rewards. And you could, if you wanted, run your regular quests in this epic mode.

The problem for me is that they also have a lot of content that has epic-level mobs and definitely require a group. And typically a group with a specific makeup. I'd love to be able to run these in non-epic, solo-able mode. Even if this means signicantly reduced rewards. Sometimes I just want to see the content, and that's more important than my purple Sword of Ultimate Slashimification.

Also, if you are going to make a group a requirement, why not have some good REASON for needing a group other than "yeah that guy is a big giant bag of hitpoints and he hits like a freight train". Make the group split up and handle mutliple tasks.

Also someone mentioned traps and puzzle elements, these would be a lot more interesting than what seems to be the typical dev philosphy for required grouping: the giant bag of hit points that his like a freight train.

Posted: Jul 14th 2009 3:14PM (Unverified) said

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You nailed it, and that is my major gripe with AoC. I belong to a huge guild on Wiccana, and if someone needed to complete the quests with Epic Mobs (Connal's Valley, anyone?), we could usually get a group together to do it, but... what a pain in the ass it is, as once you complete that quest, guess what? You get another quest to go kill another elite that was about 30 yards from the 1st, and on, and on.
That said, it starts to seem less like an engaging quest line, and more like the Devs trying to stretch out thin content....
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Posted: Jul 14th 2009 11:26AM jwoelich said

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Sadly, by far for me, the most unenjoyable aspect of online gaming has not been the games, but the players themselves. And it's getting worse. Although I'm sure it's a reflection of society as a whole, over the past decade it's been a downward spiral for respect of others and manners in general.

Posted: Jul 14th 2009 11:47AM (Unverified) said

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I strongly agree that players themselves play a large role. I'm pretty sure I'd have been able to enjoy quite a few more games if the playerbases hadn't had quite so much "douchebagery."

Pardon my French.
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Posted: Jul 14th 2009 3:11PM (Unverified) said

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Ebon, "Sadly, by far for me, the most unenjoyable aspect of online gaming has not been the games, but the players themselves. And it's getting worse. Although I'm sure it's a reflection of society as a whole, over the past decade it's been a downward spiral for respect of others and manners in general."

Agreed, I've tried a variety of MMOs WOW, EVE, and AoC is probably the biggest three titles and the immaturity of some players is just annoying.
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Posted: Jul 14th 2009 11:49PM Jhaer said

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In my opinion, the immaturity level of players is actually on the rise specifically because of the decision to cater to more solo friendly play styles. When groups are better than solo, you actually need to be nice to at least some people in order to get groups. If you can do everything without other people, then there is no reason at all to be nice, and thanks to anonymity lots of people see no downside to being a dick.
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Posted: Jul 14th 2009 11:26AM (Unverified) said

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Comparable end game gear purchasable from NPCs so I can just grind/farm for some pieces when pve/pvp wears me out.

Posted: Jul 14th 2009 12:16PM elocke said

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Bingo on what Tom said. I can't stand getting all these group quests and waiting for frigging ever to get into a group to do them and eventually out leveling it and not being able to complete it and just deleting the quest. THIS is my biggest issue with grouping. Not that I don't want to group, but developers need to find a way to solve this issue NOW, whether it be the quest changes to solo once you hit the last viable level it can be done on or whether henchman for hire are allowed to be used at that point, ANYTHING.

Posted: Jul 14th 2009 12:53PM (Unverified) said

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I would say my greatest complaints nowadays about MMOs lie with the other players in them.I loved grouping and questing with people in the old days of EQ but I find in WOW(which is my primary current MMO) most players are arrogant kids,foul mouthed punks or elitist snobs.I'm a healer I have played healers in MMOs since the days of NWN on AOL so I would say I have a good idea of how to do it so the last thing I need in my game time is some little punk screaming at me in vent to heal him because he can't manage his aggro and is getting beat down.In my mind its the other players in games that have ruined grouping and the cooperative aspect not the games themselves.

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