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Reader Comments (56)

Posted: Jul 14th 2009 8:09AM Jhaer said

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I hate the push toward primarily solo capable content. I do like that if I can't find other people to play with there is stuff I can do, but games have gone so far as to make playing solo the most efficient way to level, thus penalizing grouping, so no one wants to group because it is, in just about every way, worse than playing alone. The only advantage grouping has left is "not playing alone".

Bring back grouping!

Posted: Jul 14th 2009 8:27AM (Unverified) said

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Gonna have to agree with this one more than any other gripe I have with current MMO's. I think EQ2 has a very nice mix between having things to do solo and needing to group.
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Posted: Jul 14th 2009 8:42AM Tom in VA said

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Heh. I feel just the opposite, Jason. I love the solo stuff.

The one thing I most hate in MMOs is wasting precious game time in LFG and then eventually having to ditch instance/dungeon quests because finding groups is too much of a pain in the tail.

It's not that I opposed to group content, I just want it to be more marginalized and optional for them that wants it.

The ideal MMO is/was Guild Wars, which allowed players to group and/or solo the content, quests, and most missions. We need more -- not fewer -- MMOs like that, imo.
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Posted: Jul 14th 2009 10:51AM Royale said

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Each questing zone in AOC you can play in an "epic" mode that is tuned for groups with better rewards. I've had the most fun in AOC with a group but found that I could solo whenever I wanted just as effectively.
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Posted: Jul 14th 2009 12:17PM nomoredroids said

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@Tom: I'm assuming you're talking about WoW, because that's the only MMO I've ever played with that problem. In WoW's case, the problem is actually there ONLY because of the solo-push that Jason was talking about. Nobody wants to group, because you don't have to, so that nobody bothers grouping, so when you do want to group you can't, because nobody wants to group because nobody has to. The solution to puttering around in LFG for hours is to make a game where you have to group for much of the content. Of course everybody disagrees because they've only ever played a game where grouping is hard as hell because of the above reasons.

So now we've got a standard-setting MMO that's made it difficult and unreasonable to group with people, so that when people think "grouping," they immediately groan and opt for solo content. The other standard-setter (Guild Wars), has made it again unreasonable to need to group with people. This is not the way it should be, and its not the way it was, and its certainly my biggest gripe with MMOs.

I want to play an MMO because of the people in-game; not because I want to play a game beside thousands of others, but because I want to play a game WITH thousands of others.
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Posted: Jul 14th 2009 2:31PM (Unverified) said

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I always notice that the people advocating forced-grouping tend to be members of large or dedicated gaming guilds, powergamers from EQ1 or something.
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Posted: Jul 16th 2009 6:31PM (Unverified) said

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the thing about grouping these days is for alot of the cases it is boring as hell.
no one wants to chat. you know socialize with others in the group. its all go go go kill kill kill level level level get shiney get...well i think you got it...

the way most groups go you mite as well just be with some computer controlled bots. so many just group up..get their shiney or finish quest and they off.. slam bamm thank you mamm.

everyone is in such a hurry these days. must get to 80 in 5 days(or what ever top level is) then complain on the games forums how bored you are.

also i think alot(me anyway) just cant play like they used to(RL issues)
I cant just sit playing for 10hrs+ straight anymore. i may be logged in for 5hrs but probably only actively play for 2hrs..the rest i am afk
most groups would get peeved if someone kept going afk every 20min for 5+ min at a time.

then there is the lie that soloers want and have it easy if they want a challenge they need to group. when in fact its the other way around. Exp in groups fly by. things are easier to do. a soloer doing same content takes much longer or has to green/grey out the content. getting to 80 solo is a challenge. grouping is easy mode.

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Posted: Jul 14th 2009 4:59PM (Unverified) said

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I don't like how a lot of time in Eve is spent resizing windows; they are never the right size or in the right place. Also, the interface is very fiddly. Eg if you're under attack and want to run, you have to right click then scroll down a tiny menu to 'asteroid' or 'planet', then scroll across to the particular belt or moon, then scroll across to 'warp'. If you find you are scrambled you have to keep doing this until you break out or are killed.

Posted: Jul 14th 2009 8:19AM MrGutts said

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The F@#ning grind! I can't stand it!

Posted: Jul 14th 2009 8:24AM (Unverified) said

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Doh, yes the grind is rubbish and it annoys me when they release games that are not ready for prime time. I am happy to beta something, but I am not going to pay to do it.

Posted: Jul 14th 2009 8:48AM Aganazer said

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-Travel as a large portion of your game time (Aion's Asmodean ascension quest)
-Repetition and keyboard sequences without decision making (AoC's Simon Says combos)
-PvP Scenarios (Is the open game world just a lobby for some?)
-Auto-attack
-Dumbed down dungeons (first they got rid of traps and secrets, now there aren't any locked chests or doors. Its rare to find any kind of doors nowadays!)

Posted: Jul 14th 2009 9:07AM JohnD212 said

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I HATE spending three hours doing quests and having the quest line end with a group quest...I would prefer to have it end with something I can do solo not be forced...at the final stage...to form a group. Also...I prefer a quest line that ends after two or three....WoW has many quests lines that go on for 5 or more until you finally get your reward.

Posted: Jul 14th 2009 9:02AM (Unverified) said

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-changes to the game to balance other aspects of the game
-waiting for anything (queuing, waiting to kill a boss, waiting for a mob to spawn)
-grinding
-static environments (you have no impact on the world around you. Really, the mine is active and it's still only that deep after the game has been live for 10 years?)

Posted: Jul 14th 2009 9:02AM (Unverified) said

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When I do finally find a game with a decent PVP zone to let me run around in (better that than raid bitching as end game content, hate all the politics that go with raids as well) I don't need lag to ruin it beyond repair. Class imbalances players can deal with, as they ALL feel unfair when one (or more) of whatever just wiped you back to the graveyard is standing over you, but lag.. there's no coming back from that.

Posted: Jul 14th 2009 9:06AM (Unverified) said

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solo = normal rpg.
mmorpgs are about PEOPLE, are about GROUPS. go play a normal RPG if you want soloing to be the most effective way to progress

otherwise, the whole solo vs group thing is more about each individual MMORPG rather then all of them. even though solo has become more and more effective, it isn't a CORE mmorpg problem of all time, a.k.a. one MMORPG will have effective grouping, another won't... and that is a problem with that one MMORPG or another MMORPG.

(now for my issues with the actual genre as a whole)
1.
I think a core issue with MMORPGs is that as you level up the game gets easier a part from maybe raiding (which is current in a bad spot atm anyway). e.g. as you get more abilities, etc monsters get easier... while both should happen, you get more abilities AND the mobs get harder

2.
another core issue is releveling and new players. technology has come a long way and there should be a way to get all new players or those leveling alts to come together on one server rather then have many servers that are pretty much empty in the leveling zones... this will make sure that the experience of leveling with many people is recreated again and again (like MMORPGs SHOULD be like)

Posted: Jul 14th 2009 9:11AM Mooncalled said

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When I played WoW, it was the constant grinding. It was brutal for me. It wouldn't have been so bad if there was a story line to go with it. I'm sure there was, but for the life of my character I couldn't see it.

I play GW almost exclusively now and the one thing I don't like to do is farming. Farming for equipment or money. Drops are kinda crappy. Other then that, Guild Wars is top notch.

Posted: Jul 14th 2009 9:22AM (Unverified) said

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I forgot to add.

-Zoning. I wont play an mmo with zones, between areas, not instances obviously. The world should seem seamless.
-Horrid controls- The controls should be fairly uniform across all games and platforms. If it has an odd control scheme, i'm not playing.
-No playerbase- If there isn't anyone to group with i'm not playing
-Forced grouping- I dont like this

Posted: Jul 14th 2009 9:34AM Lamthara said

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zoning => as someone said if the world is one i should be able to pass from a place to the other just with a loooooooooooong long run

travel as a big part of the game (eve is nice but jumping is boring...)

grinding or the "kill mr.X one/ten/hundreds of times" i guess the developers should put a bigger effort to create missions that are different from each other or can be done in different ways. no more grinding pls... :( they are just fillers...

force to group.... when the group is hard to get.
I would like to get inside in an instance or find a friend to do a quest with without waiting hours. I don't mean it should be easy like playing an arcade but... you know. It's not that funny to wait that class to log in, or not being able to be helped in a quest because there isn't anyone who needs it but me... or not get a "prize" because i've helped people instead. MMOs don't help people who really like to play them in the massively way :)

Posted: Jul 14th 2009 9:57AM (Unverified) said

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"force to group.... when the group is hard to get. "

Excellent point. If I play at 2 am and the server is empty or 9 am in the daytime and the kiddies are at school, why can't I play the game?
Some say the second "M" in MMO is "multiplayer", and that means forced grouping. Well, if you log in and there is nobody on, what then? Play the auction house game? Stand there? Look at the pretty snow?
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Posted: Jul 14th 2009 9:40AM Innocentte said

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Forced Grouping. There should be incentives to group beyond just being able to do the content at all.

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