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Reader Comments (38)

Posted: Jun 30th 2009 11:43AM (Unverified) said

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You mind telling us which server? I've been follwing the threads on WA, and I've yet to see a NA server that isn't seeing an abondonment of RvR.

I can tell you that Iron Rock is nothing but LotD flipping, and BO/Keep RvEing. That's it.
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Posted: Jun 30th 2009 11:16AM Anatidae said

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I am a big WAR fan, I have had fun until the last month. I decided to level 2 characters instead of 1, and I only can play casually these days. This was fine at first, and even my Shaman was leveling only in RvR (which is way slower just grinding quests).

Now both my characters are in T3, but I am finding less and less people to actually play with. So often I log in and there is pretty much no one in that level bracket online at all (as far a a /who shows). My guess is that when people hit the top, they are loath to start a new character since T1 and T2 are even more boring. So the majority of the people sticking with WAR are now crammed into T4 content, not loving it, and basically floundering.

Of course, Land of the Dead offers exactly what WoW does. A new place to go with better loot than anywhere else and thus everyone runs there leaving everything behind a wasteland. It looks like WAR is becoming a chase the loot game that WoW is.

I hate how MMOs have become about item collecting. I don't even mind the collecting, but I think that all items should wear out and the items should be spread around the world bringing incentive for people to run lots of different content. When loot lasts forever, the only thing you can do for players is to make better loot.

Posted: Jun 30th 2009 11:58AM Tom in VA said

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I was struck by your comment that "... WAR is becoming a chase the loot game that WoW is." That's so true.

I don't know anything about WAR, but I do know WoW, and I have really been struck by how desolate the Old World Azeroth zones and now the Burning Crusade areas are. It's really kind of sad, but players, as soon as possible desert each level for the better loot in the next expansion.

I wonder why Blizzard/Mythic et al. didn't make the progression more gradual and seamless? Hellfire Peninsula, for example, the first Burning Crusade expansion zone, should have been level 62 to 64 difficulty (not 58-62), thus requiring more work/questing in Winterspring, Burning Steppes, Silithus, Stratholme, Scholomance, etc. Just my opinion here...

It seems rather that these developers actually *want* to "obsoletize" their lower-level areas. It's really too bad, as I think these lower-level dungeons and regions are really well designed and quite fun. The problem now is that, the more rewarding "next-expansion" areas offer much better gear and much more gold.
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Posted: Jun 30th 2009 12:56PM Anatidae said

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I don't think developers really "want" people to leave the zones. I am willing to bet that a lot of artists who worked on those zones wish they were used more.

What is happening is that MMO developers got caught in a level trap. Levels serve only one purpose, to restrict movement of a player in an otherwise seemingly "open" world. This is great for storylines in RPG games where you are blocked from instantly challenging the end boss until you "level up" through the other content. The RPG game can be made to seem "open" making every area accessible, but also providing near-instant death for the areas that the player should not be to yet.

Levels just hurt MMOs. In a multiplayer game they serve as a tool to separate friends (requiring ways to fix it, like CoX sidekick). They serve to make most of the world empty crowding players in one area, resulting in more lag and server strain as well. They isolate the newbie in a game that has been on the market for a while, creating a larger barrier to entry and lowering the chance of hooking another player in the subscription model.

The idea of a big overall level in an MMO needs to be eliminated. In the most popular MMO of them all, WoW, players race to the highest level just so that they can start "really playing the game". Blizzard even made their new class start half way up the level ladder just because they know how bad leveling another character is.


I wish that MMO developers would get the level stick out of their a$$ and take some of their funding and buy a clue. The idea of rewards is awesome. That is the only thing that is cool about gaining a "level" is the rewards associated with it. Again, looking at WoW there are LOTS of ways to reward a player without giving them a level. After all, WoW only gives you 80 level rewards, but gives hundreds (if not thousands) of other rewards that players grind for night and day at the top level for years.

Back to WAR, why make a RvR game that is level based? Habit is the only thing I can think of. You can reward players with unlocks to new skills/spells. I like that. But kill the level. Newer players with less spells/skills unlocked act as more infatry to begin with and earn their way into more complex forms of battle.

I like to liken this to real life a little. Someone with military training who is fighting me is likely going to win. But the fact is, if I have a gun and they have a gun, there is a chance I might shoot them in the eye. A bullet to the brain is a bullet to the brain - no matter if it is shot from a navy seal or a monkey. Just because I am a level 1 soldier does not mean I am not deadly, even with my limited skill set.


And so ends my rant on levels and how that simple dynamic will continue to be a hurdle to every game developer who implements it. (you reading developers?)
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Posted: Jun 30th 2009 1:29PM Abriael said

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I disagree that Warhammer is becoming like wow in item progression. While it DOES offer an item progression, for the ones that enjoy it (I do, for instance, when it doesn't affect gameplay too much), it doesn't influence too much one's performance in RvR, and as such it's not mandatory.

In WAR items and stats have very, very little influence on someone's performance. If you're wearing sentinel you can easily beat someone wearing warlord if you have better skills.
As of now item progression is even less important due to the newly-implemented sigil system and tokens (the only flaw still present in the system is that you can't buy ALL the armor pieces with tokens, but hopefully they'll change it in the near future).

In WOW, instead, the item grind is mandatory. If you don't have top notch equipment, you're extremely gimped and can as well just do low tier PvE. I'd say it's a big difference.
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Posted: Jun 30th 2009 11:36AM Miffy said

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Is world PVP all about ranged classes still where you get two massive zergs of ranged classes coming together with a no mans land in the middle. Melee classes were useless cause as soon as they came outta the group even if they had a million healers on them they'd be owned in seconds. The game lacked crowd cotnrol and unique class spells cause every class had the same CC and the same escape.

Posted: Jun 30th 2009 12:19PM (Unverified) said

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The game's time is up. It's too easy and too boring. You can easily crank out a 40 within a week or two, and there's no real incentive for making another character cause it's the same boring thing over again. Not to mention you can just PvP your way to 40 without enjoying the content, or lack thereof the game has to offer.I hopped on to try the LoTD and was severely dissapointed. I really wanted this game to work, but it just isn't.

Posted: Jun 30th 2009 1:10PM Abriael said

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So, since a game is not overly grindy, it's "too easy"? Thank goodness for games that don't keep me leveling for 4 months. If you want low grindy leveling the asian market has plenty of offerings for you.

Personally i find land of the dead extremely enjoyable. The art direction is one of the best seen in a MMO, The encounters are top notch in quality, the loot is very nice (graphically too) and the variety in gameplay is extremely welcome in a MMORPG, and something you see very rarely.

On top of it, the purge is one of the most fun mechanics i ever played. When people invade your instance, they make for a very fun diversion, and ducking it out six against six inside a dungeon is pure, unadultered fun.

As for RvR, I saw the same thing that Radishlav is seeing on Volkmar. As the novelty is running out, people are going out in RvR more and more as I predicted, and RvR restarted to be lively.

It was quite predictable by anyone that has any kind of knowledge of how this things work (but some preferred to whine their face out not even a week after the release). Once people get their weapons from the lairs (which is one or two per character), they don't have that much of a compelling motivation to do them. They can do some once in a while for a chance at the pocket items, but that's it. Most won't grind them 24/7. What's left is the Tomb of the Vulture lord.
But the tomb is very, very challenging to do without a static (hell, it's extremely challenging even with a full static of top geared players in ventrilo), and 6-people statics won't be on 24/7 as well.
Most people are starting to treat Land of the Dead like any other dungeon (lost vale, crypts, and so), and going in only when their static is on, playing in RvR for the rest of the time.
Add to this that, as people acquire experience with the bosses and traps, they'll soon be able to complete the dungeon in 2-3 hours like they now do with Lost Vale, and they won't go to LOTD more than one day every three due to the lock out.

But again, with new content (any type of new content), it's pretty obvious that one needs to let the dust settle to see what effect it'll have on the old content.
There's absolutely nothing that doesn't draw the vast majority of the players during the first days of live. If people had to worry about that, absolutely nothing new should ever be released. Go figure.
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Posted: Jun 30th 2009 12:46PM (Unverified) said

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I am in Darklands, one of the oceanic servers, which is supposed to be very low population and in need of merging.

I've also seen similar reports in players from other servers. It seems it may be an attitude thing, maybe you need some guilds to "start things up", so to speak.

Posted: Jun 30th 2009 12:58PM Justpotatoes said

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I miss the game, despite its flaws, and I had a really good ride with WAR. I noticed that a lot depending on timing (at least on my server, Phoenix Throne). Sometimes, you leveled up through the tiers and had a great, balanced RvR experience, and other times, you leveled up through the tiers and one side vastly dominated the other so it was all RvE. Then you got to T4 and it was fairly balanced, but the bugginess made it frustrating. The last straw for me was the lack of in-game support. After getting rolled back several times, and having no response at all to a CSR ticket for four weeks, I finally called it quits.

Although I followed the news regarding LotD pretty closely, nothing I've seen is enough to pull me back in. I loved it while it lasted.

Posted: Jun 30th 2009 1:14PM Abriael said

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Nice to see that someone else can actually move on from a game without needing to hate it.
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Posted: Jun 30th 2009 1:04PM (Unverified) said

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Let War sink at the bottom of the ocean and go for DAOC 2. At least with DAOC you will be in familiar waters.
As for AION........hmmm besides of the great looks and the fact that you have wings i dont understand why everyone is so excited. Just because it is a smash hit in Asia that doesnt mean that it will be a success in the west.
Besides does anyone remember how ppl went bananas about WAR and AOC before any of those got released? We all know what happened afterwards.
But i am prepared to eat my words if Aion will be the reasonfor me to leave wow . we ll see,,,,,,

Posted: Jun 30th 2009 2:03PM Holgranth said

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I am waiting for the dust to settle. WAR is on my list of things to retry somtime next winter if I hear enough good things about it.

Or if Blizzard completely blows 3.2 and I need to take a months vacation from WoW and Land of the Dead sarts getting rave reviews from all quarters.

More likely the latter than the former.

Posted: Jun 30th 2009 2:09PM Xtofer said

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I really really really wanted to like WAR ever since I started playing in February, but stuff like LoTD is just not cutting it for me. The problem that I have with the game is actually not class balance, but server population imbalance. The Vortex server is grossly imbalanced in Order's favor, and it makes it really hard to do things like go to LoTD. Every time I sign on, it's under the Order's control. What good is having new content if you can't experience it?

With that said, as far as the other content, T4 has been extremely boring for me. It's also frustrating to get to level 40 only to never get to run anything and see your renown grind almost immediately stop. I think I'll be letting my subscription run out in July because of these things.

Posted: Jun 30th 2009 3:44PM (Unverified) said

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I just re-subbed, rolled Destro on Iron Rock with a couple of friends, and am having a blast. I play at an off-time, and there's always something to do.

I understand that you need to do a few things to like this game: be on a populated server, find groups to RvR and do dungeons with and mix up scenarios, PQs and Open RvRing. Oh, and you need a good computer. But since I am hooked up with all of this, I dunno, I think this game rocks. Can't say I've had a better time PvPing in any other game.

Personally, I'm a happy customer. Having a blast in the early tiers, I hope that they get it together to fix T4, which is why I un-subbed previously. Seems to be their next big objective, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt until I get there.

Posted: Jun 30th 2009 9:26PM (Unverified) said

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Ok, so the caps were a little much. I really don't care if people don't like the game, they can disagree with my opinion as often as they want. I really don't mind as I try to be as open-minded as possible. What it comes down to is that some of the posts offered plenty of generalized criticisms with no real basis on which these criticisms stand on. People with the cliche'd saying, "this game is fail because it has no RvR, no class balance, no PvE and no fun!!", when the game clearly offers some of these points and as for the others, they are based on opinion anyway and so really shouldn't be thrown around like they are.

If they would actually go into their points and explain their problems with these, or offer a bit more detail, someone might actually offer a more valid reply.

Posted: Jul 1st 2009 11:07AM jwoelich said

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Cool pic.

So, the failboat flies now? Interesting indeed. When I can find more than a handful of positive opinions on this game, maybe I'll try it again. For the 6th time.

Posted: Jul 7th 2009 3:19PM (Unverified) said

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I'm glad you are enjoying your time on IR, but I think the picture changes once you hit 40.
As things stand, I doubt you'll find it as enjoyable.

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