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Reader Comments (11)

Posted: Jun 14th 2009 6:15PM Dirame said

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Haha gotta love market manipulation in EVE, a corp mate of mine makes money off of that solely.

Posted: Jun 14th 2009 7:56PM Graill440 said

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This is always a fun topic to debunk that EVE lovers try to push as a selling point in the game. Last year this supposed economist or some of his or her Dr brethren propped EVE using its "economy" in a lecture. "You pay me, i say it" is all it ended up being, lots of big nice words though.

What they failed to mention and most "paid" folks always fail to do is speak the full truth. Only tell people the minimal anount of information, never volunteer anything.

To have an economy goods must be finite, they MUST be able to disapear completely, this drives up price, (the authors examples while clinical and sound are also flawed due to the infinite nature of supplies in Eve) first major point made, nothing in Eve is finite, including the meddling of devs in EVE "economy", Ask yourself, if it wasnt to adjust things here or there why have a worthless report to begin with? Do the devs really want to know how much dirt was purchased in hi sec last week? Why would they care other than to post totals, (again, things players should be doing....now what is that stellar whatchmajigger doing?) if it is truly run and enforced by the players? Point two made.

Last point and most important. Real life manipulation of the "economy" (i guess if the EVE pips get their rocks off calling it an economy...) in Eve. This is a mechanic that has never been addressed, why, other than stupidity or lazyness on CCP'S part or the most common sense answer, CCP is afraid to close this hole fearing the loss of an undisclosed number of subs.

Eve's "economy" is as much garbage and fluff as any other MMO. There is no way to place it above or below any other wannabe called an economy in any game save for one thing.....and thats the drama that real life interaction OUTSIDE the game, that CCP dev and player alike causes. This one thing in the end will cause CCP some major grief unless addressed. We all know what can happen when two or more folks get together that have been wronged in or out of game. (make sure there is video)

Nice article btw on how things work in a perfect world. Tell me, where do you get those rose colored glasses?

I dare the CCP devs to leave the game "economy" alone for two years, all the required >legal< trappings should go with this to prevent any leaked intel or meddling. Player run economy, lets see it.

Posted: Jun 15th 2009 2:23AM (Unverified) said

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grr I'm graill, i feel the need to be a $%* for no reason!
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Posted: Jun 15th 2009 1:19AM (Unverified) said

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After reading that entire comment you wrote........ I just have one question..... What the $&*% are even talking about right now? You sound like a manic Schizo who forgot to take his aderol...... Seek help fast.. lulz
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Posted: Jun 15th 2009 9:56AM Myria said

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So basically you all didn't understand a word Graill said, but vaguely got that he wasn't praising Eve so downranked him?

Here, I'll translate it for you : Eve doesn't have a functioning economy any more then any other game does (do you people really think Eve is the only game in which economic manipulation goes on? Really?) -- among other things it suffers from 'mudflation' and endless dev tinkering on a fundamental level, two things that can't exist in a functioning economy. Hiring an economist and the "reports" generated thereof are little more then a smoke-and-mirrors game designed to feed in to the average Eve player's desperate and pathetic need to feel that they are somehow a genius for playing an ultra-complex "simulation", instead of just an average Joe/Jane playing an average (I'll be kind) game.

There, did that clear it up for you?

Oh, and Brendan? You might want to look up the word "troll". Contrary to your apparent belief, it doesn't mean "Someone who doesn't agree with me". Your backhanded attack was both terminally unprofessional and wholly uncalled for.
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Posted: Jun 15th 2009 1:20AM (Unverified) said

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That last comment was directed @Graill

Posted: Jun 15th 2009 2:21AM Brendan Drain said

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Don't mind Graill, he's our resident troll. I tend to think of him as a reverse quality indicator - The more he flames an article about EVE here at massively, the better the article must be.
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Posted: Jun 15th 2009 4:41AM HackJack said

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@ Brendan Drain

Nice article and very helpful to this new EVE player. Understanding economy is indeed fundamental in a game like EVE. Hopefully I won't fall prey to the ISK and play the game like I play my real life :)

Posted: Jun 15th 2009 5:26PM Anatidae said

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I am pretty new to Eve, but there seems to be a market. Just because raw goods are infinite in availability does not make a non-economy. And because it is a MUD, does not make it a non-economy either.

So many of our "real life" supplies are limited, yet for all purposes are limitless. We have built an economy on oil that has been treated as a limitless supply. In EVE it seems that the horrible boredom and time-sink of the actual mining is what defines the prices for ore. As other players get themselves killed, there is a demand for replacement items made from the ore and so a market is born.

I think that EVE's economy is just about as functional as the US economy (which is proving to be less than functional). Mudflation? How about market bubbles in real life? Same crap - people manipulating the market. EVE is just a simpler version.

Again, I am new to the game, but so far it is proving to be very interesting. And I made 3mil ISK trading on the market this weekend. Pretty fun.

Posted: Jun 16th 2009 8:47PM (Unverified) said

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@Graill:

You forgot time. Time is never infinite.

Also your definition of a "functioning market" seems to be one without manipulation and describe manipulation as a flaw of some kind...... odd perspective, guess you're upset because you lost some of that value-less time/isk.....

Posted: Jun 18th 2009 2:30PM (Unverified) said

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Perhaps if the people who take issue with calling Eve's economy an economy could present actual examples, their argument would be taken more seriously? I'm not an economist, but I'm not a moron either, and I fail to see how any of the points made by either graill or Myria amount to an actual contradiction to the use of the word 'economy' in reference to Eve's markets.

As someone else pointed out, in the real world the main limiting factor in supply is the time it takes to get it, not the actual quantities available (in, for instance, oil, or natural gas, or timber, etc). All things in Eve come from minerals or from killed NPCs - both of which take time to get to the market.

By Myria's definition, the real world doesn't have an economy, because 'devs' like OPEC 'tinker' with the baseline prices of things like oil.

Of course, I could just be completely misunderstanding the points made...

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