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Reader Comments (22)

Posted: May 27th 2009 3:37PM (Unverified) said

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The Croop article is essentially a prolonged puff piece about his digital addiction, and doesn't actually key in on the problems that new players have.

The fact that there's no defined newbie zone is not very relevant - in fact Croop seems to misunderstand how newbie zones and tutorials work in other MMORPGs. (Name a mainstream MMO that prevents you from exiting the newbie zone until level X, for example?)

EVE's issue is that the massively complex interface and unintuitive controls are poorly explained by a badly designed tutorial. I started playing EVE because my buddy has raved about it for years, and he was APPALLED at the misinformation in the EVE tutorial, along with the outright omissions and bad advice it gave.

EVE has a lot of really amazing concepts and game play mechanics.... don't get me wrong.... but Croop's article manages to completely miss the mark.

Posted: May 27th 2009 4:30PM Myria said

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I have to agree. the lack of a defined newbie zone is pretty much irrelevant. About the only thing I could see being done there that might help newbies is keeping the strip miners out of the starter systems. In newbie chat there's someone asking why there aren't any asteroids to mine several times an hour, most people are understandably unhappy when they're told it's because macro miners strip the bulk of hisec dry very shortly after the servers come online.
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Posted: May 27th 2009 11:10PM (Unverified) said

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"Name a mainstream MMO that prevents you from exiting the newbie zone until level X, for example?"

Age of Conan? Not to be contrarian but it AoC's new player experience was (and still is?) one of its selling points.
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Posted: May 28th 2009 11:22AM (Unverified) said

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@Sean:
Alright.... there's one. But AoC is a massive exception to the rule.
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Posted: May 27th 2009 4:26PM (Unverified) said

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Honestly, I really just logged in to que my skills, and lost interest after the 3 months of the time I recieved with the retail box was up. I had a destroyer and the capacity to fly cruisers. Only ran missions, hardly found an opportunity to work with other players, and seriously didnt have the cash to replace my ships, even the basic fighters, pvp didnt sound like a good investment at all, especially for one so small.

Posted: May 27th 2009 6:44PM Firebreak said

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I understand where you are coming from, when I started playing EVE I just could not understand how you could manage to get anywhere. I took a gamble and joined a newbie friendly corp with 0.0 access. The game changed for me completely. The corp would give you free cruisers and frigs in 0.0 and free Battleships if you lost one in a fleet fight. Even with those terms I was still freaked out to enter the free for all, once I did though I could not imagine playing EVE any other way. These kinds of corps are out there you just have to look for them and whatever you do get out of the starter corps.

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Posted: May 27th 2009 4:54PM Johny B said

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Well EvE isn't for all.
Only certain types of players play eve, only certain players like eve .. and out of that only a handful ever goes for pvp due to the high loss risk (high loss? meh ... ther is something called insurance).
And about this "no newbie zone" ... it's exactly what it should be, put the player into the game, as it is .. no flashy tutorials, no nooblet do this and that. The game is complex and difficult for a reason, so only players that actually enjoy playing the game play it.
I might sound a bit harsh ... don't get me wrong the game is difficult, but that's it's appeal ... the challenge, what makes you go " yeah ! i want more of this". It's a challenging game, very fun for those who get to know it / understand it.
And believe me when i say ... the first 2-3 months are hardest .. after that it's a breeze.
Embrace the mystery that is Eve ... or get podded trying.
Fly safe.

Posted: May 27th 2009 5:24PM Myria said

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The thing is, the game isn't particularly complex or difficult. No more or less so then most every other MMO I've played for any length of time, and less so then some. It isn't even particularly harsh, claims to the contrary notwithstanding. So you lose a ship? Big deal. Anything short of a capitol is dirt cheap anyway, most of that cost (if not all) being covered by insurance. About the worst that can happen is you lose your implants, but only an idiot would fly much of anywhere with expensive implants anyway -- jump clones make doing so wholly unnecessary.

For a variety of reasons -- some having to do with basic design (the eternal SP gap), some having to do with the terribad UI (nested right click ftl), some having to do with the kind of player base you get when your primary selling point is "legal" sociopathy -- it is, relative to other MMOs, inaccessible, but that's not the same thing as the base game being complex, difficult, harsh, or any of the other disturbingly many things Eve players seem to like to tell themselves.
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Posted: May 28th 2009 9:58PM (Unverified) said

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Myria, you handwave away all the harshness (ships are cheap! you won't lose implants unless you're an idiot!), but the fact is, it's still a lot harsher than any of the major alternatives in the MMO space.
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Posted: May 27th 2009 5:44PM (Unverified) said

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@Woodstock:
"And about this "no newbie zone" ... it's exactly what it should be, put the player into the game, as it is .. no flashy tutorials, no nooblet do this and that. The game is complex and difficult for a reason, so only players that actually enjoy playing the game play it."

That's counter-intuitive. With the learning curve where it is, the lack of a solid and instructive tutorial means that of the ~1500-2000 trial accounts online at any one time (as of last week), only a handful will ever subscribe - the rest - especially those without access to in-game friends - will be frustrated and quit.

Again - a functional tutorial and a kid's glove newbie experience are NOT mutually exclusive. Educating players properly so that they know the mechanics of how to play the game should not be considered a bad thing.

Posted: May 27th 2009 5:49PM (Unverified) said

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Correction to my above post..... clearly I should stop drinking:

"Again - a functional tutorial and a kid's glove newbie experience are NOT mutually exclusive."

Should read:

Again - a functional tutorial and a kid's glove newbie experience are NOT necessarily one in the same.

Posted: May 27th 2009 10:24PM (Unverified) said

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Unfortunatelly i boycotted mmo's for my new jobs hours, to basically get my financial prioreties strait, and ended up losing my interest in MOST games recently, just bummed out about some RL things I think, but as the previous article mentioned, MMO's are untoppable in terms of entertainment to those who have played- for me its more about competitive play, skill and intelligence, wits, so on and so fourth. Somehow Ive managed to keep playing Street Fighter 4, and I wasnt even a fan of the series until it came out and I was reluctant to buy it, but somehow I ended up getting really into it.

Its nice taking people out with 2k more ratings than myself, then again, I dont have to grind pvp gear to do it eh? Rainbow 6 vegas 2 anyone? THE BULL IS RAGEIN

Posted: May 27th 2009 10:28PM (Unverified) said

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This post was meant to be a reply to Firebreak, but since I wanted to point that out, let me put in my good points about Eve.

Its beautiful, its full of content to explore, its full of mathematical planning, full of adventure and risk, with high rewards; and consequences.

But you have to work at it, you have to want some of it to get past the noob curve or you'll end up like me, and IVE GRINDED MMO's since the Anarchy Online beta. (And MMO type games, PSO, Monster Hunter, ect.)
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Posted: May 28th 2009 12:13AM (Unverified) said

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@ Myria... Whatever come talk to us when your Box time runs out NOOBLET.... You have no f*cking clue what you are talking about. EvE is insanely complex, ive been playing for over a year and Im just barely getting a grasp of everything and theirs a ton more to learn. No other MMO on the face of the planet comes even close to the complexity in Eve.... Also try traveling out of 1.0 space before coming up with your completely uneducated synopsis of the game.....

Posted: May 28th 2009 1:21AM agitatedandroid said

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See? Sociopath. ^^
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Posted: May 28th 2009 1:45AM Graill440 said

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MIke, you speak of others being a nublet and you still play EVE? Now thats some big hypocrite balls!!

I remember when they carebeared missiles, collision, targeting and friendly fire mike, you were ok with that? all those years ago? Ya, i guess you would you would after typing what you did.
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Posted: May 28th 2009 1:20AM Graill440 said

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Well gosh golly gee.....imagine another article like this about EVE on massively!!!


May i have another fluffernutter without the crust please?

Posted: May 28th 2009 1:25AM agitatedandroid said

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In the last seven days there have been 6 posts tagged as "EVE Online". Really, what's your problem?
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Posted: May 28th 2009 1:38AM Graill440 said

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Chris!! You are crazy man!!! glad to see your not on youtube anymore lamenting about brittany, dude that was some unreal stuff you were doing, i can see you EVE folks are crazy insane!!

I do have to ask you not post anymore youtube vids, they are a bit unsettling....ya know?

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Posted: May 28th 2009 2:49AM Benicio said

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So happy there are games like WoW for all the 'Graill's' of the world.
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