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Reader Comments (20)

Posted: May 25th 2009 8:06AM (Unverified) said

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Rats? yes
Cheese? no

Too much effort in many cases? yes

Posted: May 25th 2009 8:20AM Halldorr said

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I actually really like achievements (I have over 6k achievement points on my main in WoW for example) and my like for them started in City of Heroes with their badge system 4+ years ago (before the Xbox 360).

Posted: May 25th 2009 8:21AM Sephirah said

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I got a good number of achievements in WoW till I realized that actually they were taking the fun out of the game.
"Let's see, I need 500 more quests for that achievement and exalted reputation with 3 more factions for that... /cry"
Now I try them only if I'm really bored and have nothing to do IRL.

Posted: May 25th 2009 11:43AM ReijMan said

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That has more to do with you being bored and don't really liking the game then the achievements?

In LOTRO we have 'deeds'. They categorize in
explorer / racial / skill-ussage / slayer / reputation / battle-wins / PVP-kills /fortress captures. Completing deeds give bonusus to 'virtues' of your character. They also give 'traits' which are used to tweak/specialize your character.

They are they are an integral part of the game.
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Posted: May 25th 2009 12:16PM Myria said

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For me the Deed system is one of several reasons I never bother with LoTRO for more then a month or two. Grinding for achievement/deeds/whatever is bad enough when it's optional, when it's necessary? Nah... Thanks, but no thanks.
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Posted: May 25th 2009 11:56AM Triskelion said

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Achievements on consoles and in MMOs are meaningless; but they get people to care about them which is their intent, the weak minded get assimilated.

Posted: May 25th 2009 12:05PM (Unverified) said

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I think achievements were another burnout contributor during my WoW experience. It was nice to use achievements to measure progression through questing content (Loremaster) on the way to 80. However, when I got to the end game achievements, the thought of having to go through all that work on all of my alts was daunting -- just to equalize the characters.

Maybe if the achievements were bound to the account it would have been more bearable. That way, you get them for experiencing new content.

Really like the achievements in FPS games like TF2 though.

Posted: May 25th 2009 1:08PM SgtBaker said

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It's funny how WoW attracts the "Achiever"-type gamers.
There's actually no one forcing you to complete those things on your alts and there's no game mechanic that forces you to equalize them - however many WoW players I know and read about seem to be thinking that way.

It seems like the whole game is about collecting "points" not much else.

LotRO has nice integration of deeds - it doesn't feel like some tacked on lame timesink.
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Posted: May 25th 2009 2:28PM swarmofcats said

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Account-bound achievements are the best idea I have heard to make them more meaningful. That way they would be more tied to the player instead of the character. Great idea.

(I also love how it would help prevent people from being able to hide behind lvl 1 alts on the forums.)
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Posted: May 25th 2009 2:01PM Nadril said

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Achievements in General are a nice way to prove you've done some certain content, or to "show off" so to speak. The actual achievement points are largely unimportant but it is always nice to be able to have a page with stuff you have done.

It also does always help the achiever types who want to go for those crazy titles and such. They don't seem forced by any means and I certainly can think of no reason not to have them in a game such as WoW or other MMOs like it. Sure, in a more realistic MMO (like Mortal Online) the idea of an achievement popping up in your screen would seem odd, but in a game like WoW it fits perfectly.

The only people who seem to complain are either those who "don't care about achievements" (which is fine, it still is no excuse to get rid of them) and those who are completionists and hate the grind of achievements.

Posted: May 25th 2009 2:20PM (Unverified) said

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Well, in WoW, it's become more of an end-game PUG issue. When people are recruiting slots to run end-game content, they'll often not let you in the group unless you can link them the completed achievement for your character. That way, they know you (or at least your character) has done the boss fight(s) before.
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Posted: May 25th 2009 2:23PM Nadril said

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In regards to that I think it's just more of an issue with a PUG more than achievements. It is nice to be able to see if someone has done something before, especially when you don't want to carry people through a pug, even if the notion that they have/haven't done it before probably means very little.
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Posted: May 25th 2009 2:18PM swarmofcats said

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It boggles my mind how crazy people get, wandering all over the map doing stuff they would never be doing otherwise just to get a new title like "Explorer" or making 30 page threads about how "this Proto-Drake achievement is too hard, nerf it or else I quit" posts on the forums.

I get lots of achievements just by playing normally, but there's no way in hell I'm gonna go out of my way doing stuff I don't want to do just to raise a stupid and meaningless point score. WoW's achievement system is 90% fluff content that adds nothing to the actual game, but I guess lots of people are into that sort of stuff so whatever.

Posted: May 25th 2009 3:29PM (Unverified) said

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It's really funny to me that "Achievements" & "Badges" are awarded for doing absolutely nothing. So you reach level 10 you reach level 80 big deal.... do something that takes time effort and determination. Then get an "Achievement" or a "Badge" .

Overall I wish the interfaces designed for these things were better, in SWG the interface is horrid and clunky, in World of Warcraft it's not much better and World of Warhammer... eee Warhammer it is still not much better than SWG.

Posted: May 26th 2009 1:30AM Aetrix said

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The addition of achievements completely ruined endgame raiding (and thusly my WoW career) for me. Back in the day, the best part about being in a decent guild was that all that time you spent learning the fights for weeks and weeks was rewarded with speed runs and tons of free time once the place was on farm.

Achievements changed all this. Now, instead of speed runs, you spend hours attempting to kill bosses some crazy ass backwards way because somebody in the raid still needs the achievement. There is ALWAYS somebody in the raid who still needs the achievement. My free time is valuable to me, and dedicating myself to a guild has always been a bit of a sacrifice. To continue to give up hour after hour after the hard work is done in the pursuit of meaningless e-peen points is more than I can handle.

Solo achievements don't fall into this category. I think they're great. You don't have to do them if you don't want to, and you only have to do them once.

Posted: May 26th 2009 1:31PM swarmofcats said

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I wouldn't go so far as to say raid achievements have ruined the game for me, but I'm sure it would if I was in a guild where people stressed out over stupid stuff like "Let's not kill any spores and get the achievement!!!"

I'm with you, I couldn't care less about what achievements I have or don't have. Some people like them, good for them--but for me I just want to learn the encounters and figure out how to beat them and move to the next thing while ignoring all the achievement pseudo-content.
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Posted: May 26th 2009 1:38PM swarmofcats said

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Oh, I meant to add--my favorite response to people who suggest we "go for the achievement!! it's part of Glory of the Raider!! I want a proto-drake mount!"

"Don't worry about it until you have 6 minute malygos and 3d sarth, until then you're wasting both of our time"
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Posted: May 26th 2009 7:14AM (Unverified) said

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I've been revisiting LOTRO's Deeds recently as I realised I had some Virtues I could do with improving. Although it would probably have been more advantageous to "grind" them at the appropriate level (i.e. for XP, loot, etc) I've instead returned to some mid-level zones at 60 and am collecting my Deeds by killing grey mobs.

Is it dull? Not really. It's hardly the most exciting thing to do but thankfully the numbers I need to complete the Deeds are pretty low, considering I did *some* questing there previously and the goal - IMO - is worth the effort. And so long as I limit it and switch between other stuff, it's no big deal.

Plus there's always that incentive of seeing somebody with an unusual title and thinking, "Damn, how did they get THAT one?"

Posted: May 26th 2009 9:12AM (Unverified) said

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For me the Deed system is one of several reasons I never bother with LoTRO for more then a month or two. Grinding for achievement/deeds/whatever is bad enough when it's optional, when it's necessary? Nah... Thanks, but no thanks.

----

So what about that random loot drop that forces you to complete an instance multiple times in the hope of this time being "the lucky one?" Or those items you want to buy but can't afford and so have to go and grind cash for?

Yeah, some of the LOTRO Deeds for the higher ranks of some Virtues are a bit long-winded, but it's like top-tier armour - you want it, you put the work in, or you settle for the lower-tier and stick with that.

I mean, you rack up a fair few Deeds just by playing as you would anyway, so it's not like the first rank of a Virtue is "Kill 300 Elite Giants" or anything...

Posted: May 26th 2009 1:56PM (Unverified) said

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Achievements on the 360 are mildly interesting because for the most part you earn them through the course of normal gameplay and they create a history of what you've played over the years. You generally don't 'grind' for 360 achievements, they just happen (there are exceptions of course). They're worthless, but you don't really have to work for them.

The WoW achievements are retarded. Not only because vast numbers of them require massive grinding, but because many of them require redoing content you've already done because they weren't retroactive (which means, again, they're essentially a grind). The real kicker? They're completely meaningless.

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