| Mail |
You might also like: WoW Insider, Joystiq, and more

Reader Comments (16)

Posted: Mar 25th 2009 4:13PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
A LOT
Reply

Posted: Mar 25th 2009 4:21PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
If it wasn't for the guild systems in MMO's, then I'd never play them. Other living people is the whole reason I play these games, otherwise I have hundreds of other single player games to play that I can grind away in just as easily.

Being a hunter/ranger player, I completely see the 50/50 split. Usually hunter/rangers are self sufficient for the soloing of a game, but also there's alot of min/maxers that simply don't care that there are other living people in a game. On the other hand, hunters are always so numerous in games, so the other half know they need to create friendships to be asked to join in for content, guilds supply that initial bond.

The tank thing doesn't surprise me either. Coming from LOTRO, the guards got invited to raids no matter what guild they were in. So many of them stayed in small, drama free guilds, and then on the weekends they got begged to come to the medium guild's raids because they couldn't field a full one. They were in such demand pre-moria to LOTRO that they simply didn't need to join a huge guild.

Reply

Posted: Mar 25th 2009 4:25PM HadesLotD said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Guilds matter a lot. They are the primary vehicle for an organized community, and virtually required for people to progress deep into an end game in an MMO. There are good guilds, and there are bad guilds though so a community manager needs to be able to distinguish between the two types.

In betas the organized guilds can provide lots of feedback about everything from leveling, crafting, PVP, and more. Devs can also get that from individuals as well, but the more a game depends on organized groups the better the feedback they can get by bringing in quality guilds to test.
Reply

Posted: Mar 25th 2009 4:38PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
They mean everything. Guilds are what make MMO's amazing.
Reply

Posted: Mar 25th 2009 4:45PM Thac0 said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I haven't had a guild do any good for since 2005 in SWG. I get no help from the guild leveling characters but end up paying taxes and whatnot to them. Guilds these days are just there to organize the running of endgame content. They aren't there to play with each other as friends and comrades like they used to be.
Reply

Posted: Mar 25th 2009 11:05PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I know what you mean. I recently started playing WAR and it's the same. I got into a guild because of one friendly player offered me an invite and i dont think i ever saw them again. And now for some reason I'm paying taxes on my loot and yet I feel obligated to stay for some reason.

This was happening to me in WoW though as well (no taxes though) but I just looked around on the realm forums for a decent guild. Ironically found a good run after running a few pugs with some of my current guild's members and had a great time and ended up joining.

So good guilds are out there. Doesnt matter what server or game your playing on, theres a guild out there that will suit your playing style and attitude.
Reply

Posted: Mar 25th 2009 5:02PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
A good guild makes a game for me, good people who let you do your own thing, and also do guild events that are worth being there for. Goo guilds let you have fun, do your thing and don't push you around or cramp your style.

The long and the short is if you think being in a guild is oppressive and a waste of time you're in the *wrong guild*. I think I've been very lucky as most guilds I've joined have been great, with great people and good times.

To me having no guild is like me going to a bar and sitting on your own in silence with a drink. MMOs are social for me.
Reply

Posted: Mar 25th 2009 5:51PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Love all the guilds I belong too in different games. Half of them contain real life buddies (and even one ex girlfriend) but even the ones that are made up of strangers are still more part of my life than most my "real" friends.
Finding a good one is seriously hit and miss though, you don't know how many drone armies I have joined (e.g. any guild beginning with "goon" etc) that absolutely sucked the fun out of the game for me. I actually didnt log a character in for 2 months because I didnt want to talk to anyone in his guild hehehe.
It's not the high end raiding that makes guilds great, its the "Naked Darnasus raid!" or the competition to see who could get the raid leader the maddest that make them fun!
Reply

Posted: Mar 25th 2009 6:09PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I'm not so sure that you are analyzing what you think you are. I played EQ in the early years, and enjoyed the game (somewhat) when there casual pickup groups, but as the game became more and more guild-oriented, I dropped out. And as games have designed high-end content more and more for guilds, I've found it easier and easier to drop out.

As games cater to guilds, they will lose players who don't particular want to join a guild. I've largely gone back to single-player games.

Now, that may be an OK tradeoff for the industry -- hard for me to say. But it isn't as simple as guilds make people stay. Guilds change the game, and that encourages folks who don't like guilds to leave.
Reply

Posted: Mar 25th 2009 10:03PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I completely agree with Crazy. I also played Everquest in its early days, before guilds were mandatory, but I enjoyed being in a guild then far more than I have in any game since. Because guilds were not mandatory, players were free to wait until they found a guild that was a great fit; applications and probationary periods were unnecessary, because you knew and played with people extensively before guild membership was considered by any party. Guilds became more like mercenary groups as raiding took center stage, and I dropped out then as well.

As for this study, I think this analysis of the data is very debatable. Foremost, as Crazy said, WoW is heavily guild-oriented, so it is hardly a surprise that players who are not interested in joining guilds do not stay as long as those who are. It is as reasonable to say guilds are the reason that some players leave the game as it is to say that guilds are the reason other players stay.

Regarding the speed of leveling, surely guild members have greater motivation to reach the highest levels, so it would be expected to find they are more aggressive in their advancement. For many of the unguilded, the game slows considerably at the level cap, so the same incentive to level is not there; there is disincentive, if anything. Certainly the inherent support systems are a great help to guild members, but I do not think they are at all relevant to this data.

The analysis of the most-played classes mistakes the data for group-oriented vs. solo players, when it is actually guilded vs. unguilded; players who choose not to join guilds do not necessarily play solo. Many unguilded players use the "What class do groups need most?" method of choosing a class, and certainly the first two answers would be tank and healer. Healers are the more stressful of the two by far, so tank is a logical choice for players who primarily want to be useful to (selected by) pick-up groups.

The time-played analysis is also subject to debate. First, players with extremely limited playtime do not have the same motivation to join guilds; they cannot raid, and it can be very difficult finding a good guild suited to their circumstances. So, is the player not playing as much because he isn't in a guild, or is he not in a guild because he can't play as much? Second, the sort of content that players join guilds to participate in tends to consume more time than that available to unguilded players. A greater time commitment is a prerequisite for raiding even one night per week, and it is only natural that players who participate in more time-intensive activities will spend more time playing.

Although I do not believe it was intentional, this analysis seems to be tainted by some degree of confirmation bias. While Weathers' conclusions could well be accurate, I do not think they follow necessarily at all from this data.
Reply

Posted: Mar 25th 2009 6:54PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Without a meaningful mentoring system in the game, guilds are little more than an extra chat channel used by online friends for end game content or friendly chit chat while leveling solo.
Reply

Posted: Mar 25th 2009 8:38PM (Unverified) said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Alot...in a negative way...
Played wow for years, been in many guilds, totally worthless really, except for raiding, and im 1 of those people that wishes there was no game content designed for them. Dont get me started on the pompous power tripping jerks who run some of them. Guilds are part of the reason ill never play wow again. So to agree with an earlier comment it may not be that non-guildies play less because theyer not in a guild and not having as much fun because of it and more that they lose interest with the game because they dont want to deal with guilds to experience more content.
Reply

Posted: Mar 25th 2009 9:20PM Kaio said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I think it depends on the the mmo really. In FFXI I was in a great linkshell with cool people who helped each other and we eventually got to play endgame together. I dont play FFXI anymore but we are still
close friends. Unfortunately, I havent had the same experience in Guild Wars. Maybe because Guild Wars is almost 100% soloable and FFXI was so community focused.
Reply

Posted: Mar 26th 2009 7:37AM Minofan said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Mark Benson was spot on with : "The long and the short is if you think being in a guild is oppressive and a waste of time you're in the *wrong guild*."

... But those are the only kinds of 'proper' guilds I've ever joined in any game.
Even been a high-ranker in a guild through from pre-release to launch, and when the game finally started up still only took a fortnight to degenerate into an exercise in contriving ways to squander my evenings waiting around in boredom.

The most successful guild I ever been in is my Guild Wars one, consisiting of just myself, my brother and my second account.
It gave us our own private chat channel, cloak and many hours of fun chasing expensive guild upgrade NPCs.
Reply

Posted: Mar 26th 2009 8:48AM Tom in VA said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Why I (generally) remain unguilded in MMOs ...

(1) The inane, incessant, and distracting guild chat gets on my nerves really fast.
(2) I have zero tolerance for guild drama.
(3) It is rare that people actually help each other in guilds (at least in the ones I've tried out) -- there are exceptions to this, of course -- but it takes too long to find those "great guilds" everyone raves about.
(4) Even if other guild members are online, chances are slim to none that they are at your level and/or working on the same quests you are working on.
(4) "Help", in guild parlance, often means having a level 60 condescend to carry you through some level 30 quest or instance. This is "fun" according to some people but not to me.
(5) Guilds come in handy for raiders, which works out great for me, since I don't raid -- ever.

Guilds are overrated, imo. I'd much rather PUG/solo my way through an MMO as far as I can go. Once a guild becomes truly necessary ... I move on to another MMO.

To me an MMO plays like shooting baskets (on your own) at the local park, interspersed with an occasional (and very fun) pickup game with strangers every so often.

Joining a guild is 90% fun-sucking and 10% "benefit" (if that!). I've never found them to be worth the tradeoff.
Reply

Posted: Mar 27th 2009 6:03AM DiscoJer said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I love the idea of guilds. But in practice, it's hard to find one that fits the right play style. At least for me.

If you are one of the many obsessive types that plays a game 10 hours a day, I guess it's easier. But if you play only a few at odd hours, it's almost impossible.

Heck, in one game, I was one of like 12 founding members of a guild, a member for like 3 months and when I left (because it had gotten too hardcore for me), a whopping one person noticed. Because I hadn't been part of the hard core clique. (Indeed, that's why I quit, I was never invited or even permitted to tag along for raids)
Reply
Sorry, you must be logged in to leave a comment.

Featured Stories

Engadget

Joystiq

WoW

TUAW