Today, we have another in a continuing series of articles written by the highly talented Sanya Weathers for GamerDNA. In this, her latest column, Sanya runs down some interesting and illuminating statistics about players and guilds, and just how they fit in to the macrocosm of MMOs.
A long time ago, in a fantasy world far far away, I wrangled guilds as part of my job. At first, I wrangled them because it was terribly efficient for one person struggling with a beta. Why deal with thousands of individuals when I could deal with fifty, and put them in charge of their own groups? Guild leaders will always be more informed, more tuned in, and better suited to herding their own cats than a studio representative could ever be.
But what started as expediency turned in to more.
As a community weenie, I had my dearly beloved "frequent flyers" – people who sent in feedback, usually through email no matter how many systems I built for them to use, with a regularity previously reserved for clocks, robots, and dripping faucets. If it was 3 PM on a Thursday, it was time to get mail from him, him, her, and what I was pretty sure was a him but hadn't ever asked.
And of course, whether the player was happy with my employer or so furious he was frothing, the time would eventually come where they would all move on to other games or hobbies. If a player has gone beyond the free trial, they usually stay for a period of months, and then move on.
My frequent flyers in active, engaged guilds stayed on for far longer than my frequent flyers who were unguilded or in casual guilds with indifferent leadership. So I started keeping track. Nothing fancy, because (/old lady voice) in my day we didn't have fancy metrics, whippersnappers (/old lady voice).
Still, I found that players in guilds that had regular events, strong communication outside the game, and charismatic leadership typically subscribed for six months longer than players who did not boast such social connections.
Go ahead, do the math in your head, I'll wait.
I know! Isn't that a crazy, absolutely crazy amount of money? I can barely count that high, and yet I dearly want to learn how.
So, here at GamerDNA, we're exploring ways of proving this connection with something a little more powerful than a scratch pad and an Excel spreadsheet. Today's column is the first of several such pieces.
First, let me say that in today's data, we cannot tell the difference between an active, engaged guild and one that is basically a pickup group that shares a name. Future columns will draw that distinction, we hope, but today's simply differentiates between the guilded and the non-guilded.
Today's column is written from data that we started gathering in November of 2008.
Also, in order to be sure that the randomly selected "pools" were the same size, we had to stick with World of Warcraft. Because of GamerDNA's origin as a guild tools site, many of our original members signed up at the request of the guild leader who had chosen us as a host. Only WoW has a big enough population that we could randomly select a thousand people to be in our "unguilded" pool – a few other games might have offered that many unguilded players, but it wouldn't have been a random selection.
Here we go!
(Ed note: Click on images for larger versions.)
Right away we see a difference in something key to player engagement: the time they spend in the game. Everyone saw their average hours peak during the release of the expansion. Unaffiliated players put in less than two minutes more than guilded players did – the one and only time that was true.
The winter holidays allowed the two groups to draw close to one another, and the week of New Year's saw them get as close as they've ever been besides the Lich King launch week – guilded players put in less than ten minutes more than their brethren who stick to pickup groups. I'm guessing that the holidays allowed players who have no social ties in the game (ties that would cause them to prioritize the game more highly in their daily activities) to spend more time logged in.
The guilded and unguilded haven't been that close since. Guild averages dropped during the week of the 3.0.8 patch, and solo logins rose that week, but the guild averages were still higher than the solo. Generally, those with social ties in the form of a guild put in between a half hour and an hour more every week.
Here's another standard measure of player engagement – their level, and how quickly that level rises.
The average level of the guilded players in our sample was 66.7 when our data gathering period began in November. The average level of the unguilded players was 60.5. In that first week, both groups rose in level at a rate so similar as makes no never mind: the guilded player increased by an average of 0.089 of a level, and the unguilded player rose by 0.085.
The difference a guild can make is apparent by the jump during the expansion launch week. Guilded players went up an average of 2.57 levels that week, whereas the unaffiliated players – who, if you'll recall, put in two minutes MORE time that week, only went up 0.85 of a level.
Which is still kind of staggering at the 60+ level, but that just shows you how much support matters in a massively multiplayer game.
Guilded players continued to advance a hair faster than the unguilded players for the next two months, but by the end of January, the two groups were roughly even in their leveling speed. Unguilded players occasionally leveled faster, if less than a tenth of a level counts as much faster.
Interestingly, the expansion – widely hailed as vindication for the non-raiding, non-uberguilded player – seems to have widened the gap between the two groups. They were six levels apart before the expansion, and are now separated by ten levels.
This one is fascinating, I think. The OOC channel in any MMO often hosts discussions of what classes are best for soloing. Lately, I've been forced to play almost entirely solo, but my preferred class – tank – is never the one the channel experts advise newbies to choose. Hybrids inevitably get the nod, because of their ability to do a little bit of everything. My own arguments for choosing a tank as a solo – great armor, decent damage, plus sufficient hit points to handle multiple aggs without the kind of timing that mezzing or fearing requires – get mocked.
Well, guess who's laughing now. Booyah.
Though I admit that my own private guess for the most likely to fly solo was the Rogue. Assassin players sure seem the type to prefer working on their own in the shadows, but I guess that's a stereotype. Unguilded rogues have numbers less than 2% more than the guilded. The unguilded class of choice in World of Warcraft is warriors by a long shot.
So what have we learned?
It's not just anecdotal evidence, anymore. In WoW, and I think any game built with similar mechanics (which is practically freaking everyone coming down the pike) any guild membership at all increases engagement as measured by time played per week, levels achieved, and leveling speed.
In the months to come, we at GamerDNA think we're going to prove that it's not just engagement that rises with guild membership, but subscription length as well. We will also be looking at the differences between casually formed guilds, and highly motivated close knit guilds. So stay tuned!
Reader Comments (16)
Posted: Mar 25th 2009 4:21PM (Unverified) said
If it wasn't for the guild systems in MMO's, then I'd never play them. Other living people is the whole reason I play these games, otherwise I have hundreds of other single player games to play that I can grind away in just as easily.
Being a hunter/ranger player, I completely see the 50/50 split. Usually hunter/rangers are self sufficient for the soloing of a game, but also there's alot of min/maxers that simply don't care that there are other living people in a game. On the other hand, hunters are always so numerous in games, so the other half know they need to create friendships to be asked to join in for content, guilds supply that initial bond.
The tank thing doesn't surprise me either. Coming from LOTRO, the guards got invited to raids no matter what guild they were in. So many of them stayed in small, drama free guilds, and then on the weekends they got begged to come to the medium guild's raids because they couldn't field a full one. They were in such demand pre-moria to LOTRO that they simply didn't need to join a huge guild.
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Being a hunter/ranger player, I completely see the 50/50 split. Usually hunter/rangers are self sufficient for the soloing of a game, but also there's alot of min/maxers that simply don't care that there are other living people in a game. On the other hand, hunters are always so numerous in games, so the other half know they need to create friendships to be asked to join in for content, guilds supply that initial bond.
The tank thing doesn't surprise me either. Coming from LOTRO, the guards got invited to raids no matter what guild they were in. So many of them stayed in small, drama free guilds, and then on the weekends they got begged to come to the medium guild's raids because they couldn't field a full one. They were in such demand pre-moria to LOTRO that they simply didn't need to join a huge guild.
Posted: Mar 25th 2009 4:25PM HadesLotD said
Guilds matter a lot. They are the primary vehicle for an organized community, and virtually required for people to progress deep into an end game in an MMO. There are good guilds, and there are bad guilds though so a community manager needs to be able to distinguish between the two types.
In betas the organized guilds can provide lots of feedback about everything from leveling, crafting, PVP, and more. Devs can also get that from individuals as well, but the more a game depends on organized groups the better the feedback they can get by bringing in quality guilds to test.
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In betas the organized guilds can provide lots of feedback about everything from leveling, crafting, PVP, and more. Devs can also get that from individuals as well, but the more a game depends on organized groups the better the feedback they can get by bringing in quality guilds to test.
Posted: Mar 25th 2009 4:38PM (Unverified) said
They mean everything. Guilds are what make MMO's amazing.
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Posted: Mar 25th 2009 4:45PM Thac0 said
I haven't had a guild do any good for since 2005 in SWG. I get no help from the guild leveling characters but end up paying taxes and whatnot to them. Guilds these days are just there to organize the running of endgame content. They aren't there to play with each other as friends and comrades like they used to be.
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Posted: Mar 25th 2009 11:05PM (Unverified) said
I know what you mean. I recently started playing WAR and it's the same. I got into a guild because of one friendly player offered me an invite and i dont think i ever saw them again. And now for some reason I'm paying taxes on my loot and yet I feel obligated to stay for some reason.
This was happening to me in WoW though as well (no taxes though) but I just looked around on the realm forums for a decent guild. Ironically found a good run after running a few pugs with some of my current guild's members and had a great time and ended up joining.
So good guilds are out there. Doesnt matter what server or game your playing on, theres a guild out there that will suit your playing style and attitude.
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This was happening to me in WoW though as well (no taxes though) but I just looked around on the realm forums for a decent guild. Ironically found a good run after running a few pugs with some of my current guild's members and had a great time and ended up joining.
So good guilds are out there. Doesnt matter what server or game your playing on, theres a guild out there that will suit your playing style and attitude.
Posted: Mar 25th 2009 5:02PM (Unverified) said
A good guild makes a game for me, good people who let you do your own thing, and also do guild events that are worth being there for. Goo guilds let you have fun, do your thing and don't push you around or cramp your style.
The long and the short is if you think being in a guild is oppressive and a waste of time you're in the *wrong guild*. I think I've been very lucky as most guilds I've joined have been great, with great people and good times.
To me having no guild is like me going to a bar and sitting on your own in silence with a drink. MMOs are social for me.
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The long and the short is if you think being in a guild is oppressive and a waste of time you're in the *wrong guild*. I think I've been very lucky as most guilds I've joined have been great, with great people and good times.
To me having no guild is like me going to a bar and sitting on your own in silence with a drink. MMOs are social for me.
Posted: Mar 25th 2009 5:51PM (Unverified) said
Love all the guilds I belong too in different games. Half of them contain real life buddies (and even one ex girlfriend) but even the ones that are made up of strangers are still more part of my life than most my "real" friends.
Finding a good one is seriously hit and miss though, you don't know how many drone armies I have joined (e.g. any guild beginning with "goon" etc) that absolutely sucked the fun out of the game for me. I actually didnt log a character in for 2 months because I didnt want to talk to anyone in his guild hehehe.
It's not the high end raiding that makes guilds great, its the "Naked Darnasus raid!" or the competition to see who could get the raid leader the maddest that make them fun!
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Finding a good one is seriously hit and miss though, you don't know how many drone armies I have joined (e.g. any guild beginning with "goon" etc) that absolutely sucked the fun out of the game for me. I actually didnt log a character in for 2 months because I didnt want to talk to anyone in his guild hehehe.
It's not the high end raiding that makes guilds great, its the "Naked Darnasus raid!" or the competition to see who could get the raid leader the maddest that make them fun!
Posted: Mar 25th 2009 6:09PM (Unverified) said
I'm not so sure that you are analyzing what you think you are. I played EQ in the early years, and enjoyed the game (somewhat) when there casual pickup groups, but as the game became more and more guild-oriented, I dropped out. And as games have designed high-end content more and more for guilds, I've found it easier and easier to drop out.
As games cater to guilds, they will lose players who don't particular want to join a guild. I've largely gone back to single-player games.
Now, that may be an OK tradeoff for the industry -- hard for me to say. But it isn't as simple as guilds make people stay. Guilds change the game, and that encourages folks who don't like guilds to leave.
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As games cater to guilds, they will lose players who don't particular want to join a guild. I've largely gone back to single-player games.
Now, that may be an OK tradeoff for the industry -- hard for me to say. But it isn't as simple as guilds make people stay. Guilds change the game, and that encourages folks who don't like guilds to leave.
Posted: Mar 25th 2009 10:03PM (Unverified) said
I completely agree with Crazy. I also played Everquest in its early days, before guilds were mandatory, but I enjoyed being in a guild then far more than I have in any game since. Because guilds were not mandatory, players were free to wait until they found a guild that was a great fit; applications and probationary periods were unnecessary, because you knew and played with people extensively before guild membership was considered by any party. Guilds became more like mercenary groups as raiding took center stage, and I dropped out then as well.
As for this study, I think this analysis of the data is very debatable. Foremost, as Crazy said, WoW is heavily guild-oriented, so it is hardly a surprise that players who are not interested in joining guilds do not stay as long as those who are. It is as reasonable to say guilds are the reason that some players leave the game as it is to say that guilds are the reason other players stay.
Regarding the speed of leveling, surely guild members have greater motivation to reach the highest levels, so it would be expected to find they are more aggressive in their advancement. For many of the unguilded, the game slows considerably at the level cap, so the same incentive to level is not there; there is disincentive, if anything. Certainly the inherent support systems are a great help to guild members, but I do not think they are at all relevant to this data.
The analysis of the most-played classes mistakes the data for group-oriented vs. solo players, when it is actually guilded vs. unguilded; players who choose not to join guilds do not necessarily play solo. Many unguilded players use the "What class do groups need most?" method of choosing a class, and certainly the first two answers would be tank and healer. Healers are the more stressful of the two by far, so tank is a logical choice for players who primarily want to be useful to (selected by) pick-up groups.
The time-played analysis is also subject to debate. First, players with extremely limited playtime do not have the same motivation to join guilds; they cannot raid, and it can be very difficult finding a good guild suited to their circumstances. So, is the player not playing as much because he isn't in a guild, or is he not in a guild because he can't play as much? Second, the sort of content that players join guilds to participate in tends to consume more time than that available to unguilded players. A greater time commitment is a prerequisite for raiding even one night per week, and it is only natural that players who participate in more time-intensive activities will spend more time playing.
Although I do not believe it was intentional, this analysis seems to be tainted by some degree of confirmation bias. While Weathers' conclusions could well be accurate, I do not think they follow necessarily at all from this data.
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As for this study, I think this analysis of the data is very debatable. Foremost, as Crazy said, WoW is heavily guild-oriented, so it is hardly a surprise that players who are not interested in joining guilds do not stay as long as those who are. It is as reasonable to say guilds are the reason that some players leave the game as it is to say that guilds are the reason other players stay.
Regarding the speed of leveling, surely guild members have greater motivation to reach the highest levels, so it would be expected to find they are more aggressive in their advancement. For many of the unguilded, the game slows considerably at the level cap, so the same incentive to level is not there; there is disincentive, if anything. Certainly the inherent support systems are a great help to guild members, but I do not think they are at all relevant to this data.
The analysis of the most-played classes mistakes the data for group-oriented vs. solo players, when it is actually guilded vs. unguilded; players who choose not to join guilds do not necessarily play solo. Many unguilded players use the "What class do groups need most?" method of choosing a class, and certainly the first two answers would be tank and healer. Healers are the more stressful of the two by far, so tank is a logical choice for players who primarily want to be useful to (selected by) pick-up groups.
The time-played analysis is also subject to debate. First, players with extremely limited playtime do not have the same motivation to join guilds; they cannot raid, and it can be very difficult finding a good guild suited to their circumstances. So, is the player not playing as much because he isn't in a guild, or is he not in a guild because he can't play as much? Second, the sort of content that players join guilds to participate in tends to consume more time than that available to unguilded players. A greater time commitment is a prerequisite for raiding even one night per week, and it is only natural that players who participate in more time-intensive activities will spend more time playing.
Although I do not believe it was intentional, this analysis seems to be tainted by some degree of confirmation bias. While Weathers' conclusions could well be accurate, I do not think they follow necessarily at all from this data.
Posted: Mar 25th 2009 6:54PM (Unverified) said
Without a meaningful mentoring system in the game, guilds are little more than an extra chat channel used by online friends for end game content or friendly chit chat while leveling solo.
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Posted: Mar 25th 2009 8:38PM (Unverified) said
Alot...in a negative way...
Played wow for years, been in many guilds, totally worthless really, except for raiding, and im 1 of those people that wishes there was no game content designed for them. Dont get me started on the pompous power tripping jerks who run some of them. Guilds are part of the reason ill never play wow again. So to agree with an earlier comment it may not be that non-guildies play less because theyer not in a guild and not having as much fun because of it and more that they lose interest with the game because they dont want to deal with guilds to experience more content.
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Played wow for years, been in many guilds, totally worthless really, except for raiding, and im 1 of those people that wishes there was no game content designed for them. Dont get me started on the pompous power tripping jerks who run some of them. Guilds are part of the reason ill never play wow again. So to agree with an earlier comment it may not be that non-guildies play less because theyer not in a guild and not having as much fun because of it and more that they lose interest with the game because they dont want to deal with guilds to experience more content.
Posted: Mar 25th 2009 9:20PM Kaio said
I think it depends on the the mmo really. In FFXI I was in a great linkshell with cool people who helped each other and we eventually got to play endgame together. I dont play FFXI anymore but we are still
close friends. Unfortunately, I havent had the same experience in Guild Wars. Maybe because Guild Wars is almost 100% soloable and FFXI was so community focused.
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close friends. Unfortunately, I havent had the same experience in Guild Wars. Maybe because Guild Wars is almost 100% soloable and FFXI was so community focused.
Posted: Mar 26th 2009 7:37AM Minofan said
Mark Benson was spot on with : "The long and the short is if you think being in a guild is oppressive and a waste of time you're in the *wrong guild*."
... But those are the only kinds of 'proper' guilds I've ever joined in any game.
Even been a high-ranker in a guild through from pre-release to launch, and when the game finally started up still only took a fortnight to degenerate into an exercise in contriving ways to squander my evenings waiting around in boredom.
The most successful guild I ever been in is my Guild Wars one, consisiting of just myself, my brother and my second account.
It gave us our own private chat channel, cloak and many hours of fun chasing expensive guild upgrade NPCs.
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... But those are the only kinds of 'proper' guilds I've ever joined in any game.
Even been a high-ranker in a guild through from pre-release to launch, and when the game finally started up still only took a fortnight to degenerate into an exercise in contriving ways to squander my evenings waiting around in boredom.
The most successful guild I ever been in is my Guild Wars one, consisiting of just myself, my brother and my second account.
It gave us our own private chat channel, cloak and many hours of fun chasing expensive guild upgrade NPCs.
Posted: Mar 26th 2009 8:48AM Tom in VA said
Why I (generally) remain unguilded in MMOs ...
(1) The inane, incessant, and distracting guild chat gets on my nerves really fast.
(2) I have zero tolerance for guild drama.
(3) It is rare that people actually help each other in guilds (at least in the ones I've tried out) -- there are exceptions to this, of course -- but it takes too long to find those "great guilds" everyone raves about.
(4) Even if other guild members are online, chances are slim to none that they are at your level and/or working on the same quests you are working on.
(4) "Help", in guild parlance, often means having a level 60 condescend to carry you through some level 30 quest or instance. This is "fun" according to some people but not to me.
(5) Guilds come in handy for raiders, which works out great for me, since I don't raid -- ever.
Guilds are overrated, imo. I'd much rather PUG/solo my way through an MMO as far as I can go. Once a guild becomes truly necessary ... I move on to another MMO.
To me an MMO plays like shooting baskets (on your own) at the local park, interspersed with an occasional (and very fun) pickup game with strangers every so often.
Joining a guild is 90% fun-sucking and 10% "benefit" (if that!). I've never found them to be worth the tradeoff.
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(1) The inane, incessant, and distracting guild chat gets on my nerves really fast.
(2) I have zero tolerance for guild drama.
(3) It is rare that people actually help each other in guilds (at least in the ones I've tried out) -- there are exceptions to this, of course -- but it takes too long to find those "great guilds" everyone raves about.
(4) Even if other guild members are online, chances are slim to none that they are at your level and/or working on the same quests you are working on.
(4) "Help", in guild parlance, often means having a level 60 condescend to carry you through some level 30 quest or instance. This is "fun" according to some people but not to me.
(5) Guilds come in handy for raiders, which works out great for me, since I don't raid -- ever.
Guilds are overrated, imo. I'd much rather PUG/solo my way through an MMO as far as I can go. Once a guild becomes truly necessary ... I move on to another MMO.
To me an MMO plays like shooting baskets (on your own) at the local park, interspersed with an occasional (and very fun) pickup game with strangers every so often.
Joining a guild is 90% fun-sucking and 10% "benefit" (if that!). I've never found them to be worth the tradeoff.
Posted: Mar 27th 2009 6:03AM DiscoJer said
I love the idea of guilds. But in practice, it's hard to find one that fits the right play style. At least for me.
If you are one of the many obsessive types that plays a game 10 hours a day, I guess it's easier. But if you play only a few at odd hours, it's almost impossible.
Heck, in one game, I was one of like 12 founding members of a guild, a member for like 3 months and when I left (because it had gotten too hardcore for me), a whopping one person noticed. Because I hadn't been part of the hard core clique. (Indeed, that's why I quit, I was never invited or even permitted to tag along for raids)
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If you are one of the many obsessive types that plays a game 10 hours a day, I guess it's easier. But if you play only a few at odd hours, it's almost impossible.
Heck, in one game, I was one of like 12 founding members of a guild, a member for like 3 months and when I left (because it had gotten too hardcore for me), a whopping one person noticed. Because I hadn't been part of the hard core clique. (Indeed, that's why I quit, I was never invited or even permitted to tag along for raids)
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