So some new developments have been made concerning allegations that Cryptic Studios was using the City of Heroes forums for Champions Online beta recruitment.
Massively commenter PunkRockDiva has pointed us to a forum post by Cryptic associate community relations manger IronAngel, who relayed a message from his boss, Ivan Sulic. Within that message Ivan confirmed the rumor, saying there was no ill intent in what happened. He then explained why it happened -- that community, PR and marketing are in the middle of restructuring. "Shills, poaching, bullshotting... No chance, man. We make good games and we hope people will play them. Best anyone can do, right?" Was how Mr. Sulic concluded his message.
If the name Ivan Sulic sounds familiar, you may remember him as the Hellgate: London community manager telling players concerned about the game's lack of a LAN mode, "Who the fuck cares?" Well, we're pretty sure a lot of people care nowadays, Mr. Sulic. This was all dug up by Scott Jennings, who posted his opinion of the whole matter on his website, Broken Toys.
As Scott points out, it's not an apology if you make light of the matter and pretend it's not a big deal. As people who love the MMO genre, this is not the sort of behavior we want the industry to feel is acceptable. And as such, when a developer has upcoming titles we very much want to play -- like Champions Online and Star Trek Online -- it evaporates our desire to support them.
[Update] We've received a comment from Mr. Ivan Sulic with an apology and felt it should be reflected here, "So, to the point then... I am sorry. Cryptic is sorry. This should not have happened. It was inappropriate and it will not happen again. Please understand that we truly did not intend any offense, though. The people involved are very sorry about it, believe me. This has been a big headache when it should have been as simple as, 'Hey, any MMO guild folks want to play Champions?'" It's great to have this cleared up, as nobody at Massively wanted any of this to remain unclear to either ourselves or to you, our readers.
Reader Comments (63)
Posted: Mar 19th 2009 9:03PM (Unverified) said
Yes I'm a Cryptic Fan/Player
and under NDA
Star Trek Online now gives Beta Slots to regularly occurring trivia contest winners - a total insult to both testers and those who will not be picked, in my opinion.
They have been rotating the CS/moderators at an alarming rate. This is true for both games.
The STO site's primary enforcement moderator Armadan appears to be very challenged with the English language in his posts. I am not exaggerating, check it out it's not his primary language... Although the moderating seems OK I think there is much cause for alarm in current community relations matters.
and under NDA
Star Trek Online now gives Beta Slots to regularly occurring trivia contest winners - a total insult to both testers and those who will not be picked, in my opinion.
They have been rotating the CS/moderators at an alarming rate. This is true for both games.
The STO site's primary enforcement moderator Armadan appears to be very challenged with the English language in his posts. I am not exaggerating, check it out it's not his primary language... Although the moderating seems OK I think there is much cause for alarm in current community relations matters.
Posted: Mar 19th 2009 9:09PM (Unverified) said
hmm... this article is imho fairly one-sided. It would have been fair to quote the whole statement...
Apart from that the whole thing is kind of weird and the way the companys handle this seems a bit childish
Apart from that the whole thing is kind of weird and the way the companys handle this seems a bit childish
Posted: Mar 19th 2009 9:24PM Russell Clarke said
Perhaps they think they're being 'edgy'.
Bless.
Reply
Bless.
Posted: Mar 19th 2009 9:09PM jmerriex said
I just don't see it that way. It does seem that Cryptic is making fun of the product they offloaded to NCSoft. I know the CoX team personally and several of the Cryptic guys (not the ones that did this). There isn't a lot of love between the two teams which imho made this stunt all the worse.
I think it was a mistake to make light of this particular situation. It has definitely soured me to Cryptic and I have friends there :( (P.S. I read the whole post too and still feel it wasn't sincere).
I think it was a mistake to make light of this particular situation. It has definitely soured me to Cryptic and I have friends there :( (P.S. I read the whole post too and still feel it wasn't sincere).
Posted: Mar 19th 2009 9:09PM (Unverified) said
As long as Ivan Sulic is running the community side of things there, I have no interest in their games.
Posted: Mar 19th 2009 9:31PM (Unverified) said
Hmm, I'm fearful how much faith Cryptic has in their new IP if they have sunk to doing this. Which sucks because I don't know if I can support them now; seeing as I really wanted to play STO.
Before you whine it, I don't play NC Soft games. They have yet to make one I really like. Well to be fair it's the same with Cryptic until STO launches.
The issue really is that they violated the law. a law that in place to protect other companies and their games from criminal offenses, I.E. this is the law they use to after farmers. Which in effect what they now are, the biggest farmers in the MMO universe. Anyway that's my two cents thanks for reading.
Before you whine it, I don't play NC Soft games. They have yet to make one I really like. Well to be fair it's the same with Cryptic until STO launches.
The issue really is that they violated the law. a law that in place to protect other companies and their games from criminal offenses, I.E. this is the law they use to after farmers. Which in effect what they now are, the biggest farmers in the MMO universe. Anyway that's my two cents thanks for reading.
Posted: Mar 19th 2009 9:32PM (Unverified) said
As a long time player of CoH I see nothing wrong with this. To me it sounds like exactly what Mr. Sulic says, a few employees inviting plays to join their beta. Not the evil plot to steal a fanbase and ruin a company.
Not everything is a Nemesis plot.
Not everything is a Nemesis plot.
Posted: Mar 19th 2009 9:41PM Russell Clarke said
Yes, but it's still violation of the EULA (solicitation).
Perhaps they should rebrand as "HypoCryptical"
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Perhaps they should rebrand as "HypoCryptical"
Posted: Mar 19th 2009 9:59PM (Unverified) said
O please, does anyone here even know what solicitation means?
From what I saw of the messages sent they consisted of someone at Cryptic saying "hey we noticed you like comic based mmo games, we happen to be beta testing a new one, would you like to be a beta tester?"
All this crap about breaking laws and EULA, if such a thing was done NCSoft would be suing Cryptic into the ground right about now. But they're not, so either they don't care, or there's nothing they can do about it (meaning it's perfectly legal).
As for and moral line this crossed, it's business for crying out loud! What morals?! Get off your high horse. Honestly if something like this shakes your faith in a company I'd wager you were never interested in the first place. So while you're off crying about what an evil dastardly underhanded tactic this was. The rest of us will be playing CO.
Reply
From what I saw of the messages sent they consisted of someone at Cryptic saying "hey we noticed you like comic based mmo games, we happen to be beta testing a new one, would you like to be a beta tester?"
All this crap about breaking laws and EULA, if such a thing was done NCSoft would be suing Cryptic into the ground right about now. But they're not, so either they don't care, or there's nothing they can do about it (meaning it's perfectly legal).
As for and moral line this crossed, it's business for crying out loud! What morals?! Get off your high horse. Honestly if something like this shakes your faith in a company I'd wager you were never interested in the first place. So while you're off crying about what an evil dastardly underhanded tactic this was. The rest of us will be playing CO.
Posted: Mar 19th 2009 10:25PM CCon99 said
Do you really think there won't be litigation over this situation? It won't happen over night, NCSoft will likely wait til Champions launches. Then after the launch when CoH loses X amount of subscribers, NCSoft's lawyers will then make their best case that this little harmless stunt cost them X amount of customers and more importantly Y amount of dollars and that NCSoft seeks to be compensated for their losses.
They'll prove that Cryptic employees used personal or corporate credit cards to create accounts to their game. They'll then prove the accounts created, were used to contact their customers through their own forums and in game to come try their game. Then they'll show that Cryptic admitted in a statement that their employees did indeed do what they're accusing them of. There have been worst cases filed with far less evidence. And who knows what else is in those game mails, chat logs, and forum PM's to other customers.
Of course in the end it probably won't matter, because it will all get settled out of court.
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They'll prove that Cryptic employees used personal or corporate credit cards to create accounts to their game. They'll then prove the accounts created, were used to contact their customers through their own forums and in game to come try their game. Then they'll show that Cryptic admitted in a statement that their employees did indeed do what they're accusing them of. There have been worst cases filed with far less evidence. And who knows what else is in those game mails, chat logs, and forum PM's to other customers.
Of course in the end it probably won't matter, because it will all get settled out of court.
Posted: Mar 20th 2009 2:21AM UnSub said
@Punkrockdiva: NCsoft won't go to court over this because they've already got what they wanted.
1) The process stopped.
2) The responsible party admitted it happened and indicated they'd stop.
3) It's a negative PR event for a competing title approaching the cusp of launching.
Also, no-one wants to go to court to test out the legal validity of EULAs if they can avoid it.
Reply
1) The process stopped.
2) The responsible party admitted it happened and indicated they'd stop.
3) It's a negative PR event for a competing title approaching the cusp of launching.
Also, no-one wants to go to court to test out the legal validity of EULAs if they can avoid it.
Posted: Mar 19th 2009 10:02PM UnSub said
That Cryptic agrees they (the royal 'They', not that everyone was involved) shouldn't have done this and it won't happen again is a very positive outcome.
I lack the Hellgate rage to care about where Sulic is from, but he gave the right answer, even if he wasn't as contrite as some people wanted.
I lack the Hellgate rage to care about where Sulic is from, but he gave the right answer, even if he wasn't as contrite as some people wanted.
Posted: Mar 19th 2009 10:33PM Russell Clarke said
Oh Candor, you're such a pragmatist.
I don't have a high horse, and I don't have faith in companies.
I'll be playing CO too, but I also buy petrol for my car, it doesn't mean I have faith, or even high regard, for oil companies.
I do however enjoy seeing an overt example of how these companies (not just Cryptic) really operate, to remind us that they are, to a man, a bunch of hypocritical pricks, and how undeserving they are of the awe and unquestioning loyalty they continue to get from the hordes of rabid MMO fanboys out there.
I don't have a high horse, and I don't have faith in companies.
I'll be playing CO too, but I also buy petrol for my car, it doesn't mean I have faith, or even high regard, for oil companies.
I do however enjoy seeing an overt example of how these companies (not just Cryptic) really operate, to remind us that they are, to a man, a bunch of hypocritical pricks, and how undeserving they are of the awe and unquestioning loyalty they continue to get from the hordes of rabid MMO fanboys out there.
Posted: Mar 20th 2009 8:32AM (Unverified) said
That specific comment was not directed at you, sorry for the misunderstanding.
Reply
Posted: Mar 19th 2009 10:47PM Its Utakata stupid said
Big thumbs down!
Posted: Mar 19th 2009 11:08PM (Unverified) said
"As for and moral line this crossed, it's business for crying out loud! What morals?!"
And herein lies the problem. Some people think its acceptable to walk over who ever you want for profit, some people don't. Thankfully there are business owners like myself out there who do have morals and don't find themselves having to explain why they did "X" which has resulted in "Y".
I'll be giving this game a wide birth now.
And herein lies the problem. Some people think its acceptable to walk over who ever you want for profit, some people don't. Thankfully there are business owners like myself out there who do have morals and don't find themselves having to explain why they did "X" which has resulted in "Y".
I'll be giving this game a wide birth now.
Posted: Mar 19th 2009 11:14PM toychristopher said
Their response is inappropriate but this kind of behavior is not unheard of. Many other mmo's mined others mmo's playerbase for beta testers.
Posted: Mar 20th 2009 12:28AM (Unverified) said
I'm not saying what Cryptic did was necessarily right or not. What dissapointed me was the fact that this report was so biased and I've always liked and trusted this website. Guess I'll just not trust articles from this author who should be working for a tabloid btw.
Posted: Mar 20th 2009 12:55AM (Unverified) said
These kinds of biased reports only discredit the author and the site hosting. Very unprofessional.









